Monica
💫 Summary
Ian Rafalko, son of Dr. Eric Berg, talks about leaving Scientology and the neglect he experienced from his parents, while also exposing his father's alleged pretense of Christianity and support of the organization. He also reveals the untruths and cover-ups within Scientology, including the inflated numbers of members and discriminatory leasing practices.
✨ Highlights📊 Transcript
Ian Rafalko explains the emotional toll of leaving Scientology and how it has led him to seek justice and share his story honestly.
00:00
Ian took the time he needed to emotionally prepare himself before leaving Scientology.
Leaving Scientology has given Ian a clearer perspective on his past and the injustices he was shielded from.
Ian is motivated to share his story honestly and provide a more realistic account of his experience with Scientology.
Ian discusses how people question his father's actions and beliefs, including his alleged support for Scientology and pretending to be Christian.
08:29
People question if his father supports Scientology and how someone nice could have malicious intentions.
His father allegedly pretends to be Christian in his comments and emails, despite not believing in God at all.
Ian shares his father's belief that he was involved in designing the human body billions of years ago, which influences his expertise in health.
Ian left Scientology because he was tired of being targeted and treated differently due to his behavioral patterns, which he suspects may be related to being on the autism spectrum. He lacked the financial means to get a formal diagnosis, but many signs pointed towards it.
17:02
Ian felt sick of being targeted and treated differently by his parents due to his behavioral patterns.
He suspects that he may be on the autism spectrum, but lacked the money to get a formal diagnosis.
Ian discovered that there were potential help and support available for his behavioral issues, which he couldn't explain throughout his life.
His parents attributed his mental faculties and behavioral patterns to something broken from before, and he was labeled as an "upstat" or a "degraded being."
Ian Rafalko faced consequences for expressing doubt about his purpose within Scientology, leading to his removal from superpower and being confined to his room for five months.
25:31
Ian expressed that staff wasn't his main purpose, which displeased his auditor.
As a result, Ian was taken off superpower and forced to remain in his room or make amends for five months.
Ian's doubt about his purpose was the basis for his lower condition.
Despite not expressing a desire to leave, Ian was still put into doubt and faced consequences.
Ian Rafalko talks about his father's response to him leaving Scientology and his own realization about the church.
34:01
Ian mentions that his father has changed his public appearances and live shows after Ian left Scientology.
He discusses his own realization about not needing permission from a church to live life.
Ian expresses his frustration with the church's denial of certain interviews and his brother's responses.
The speaker discusses submitting a freedom of information act request for police footage and mentions that their family mysteriously left the state for a month.
42:36
The speaker plans to submit a freedom of information act request for the police footage.
Their family packed up and left the state for a month.
The speaker felt neglected by their parents and had the impression that they were exhausted from having two children.
They felt like a burden and believed their parents didn't like them.
The speaker witnessed a large Scientology event in Clearwater, with thousands of staff members and Sea Org members present.
51:05
The event included a photo shoot with a big drone shot.
The speaker estimated around 1300 total members in Clearwater at the time.
Most activities were closed off to the public, and the speaker mentioned the plan for Elren Hubbard Hall.
Around 200 foreign people were entering the country at the time.
The speaker discusses how the Church of Scientology is renewing leases for Scientologists but not for non-Scientologists.
59:37
Non-Scientologists were given two years to vacate the property legally.
The Church of Scientology has not done anything with the property yet.
The building in question is a commercial office, not an apartment building.
The Church of Scientology is creating a mirage of expansion by focusing on architectural pageantry.
00:00hey everybody thanks for tuning in um
00:02aaron here welcome back to the channel
00:04i'm talking today with ian
00:06refalco son of dr eric berg how are you
00:09doing ian doing all right
00:12so i did a video recently calling out
00:14well your dad and grant cardone it was
00:17really an excuse to kind of troll the
00:19both of them
00:21and there's so many people in the
00:22comments like oh you need to talk to dr
00:25berg's son left scientology you need to
00:27talk
00:28to ian and you and i have never spoken
00:29on my channel although we've been in
00:30touch for a while so yeah um and then
00:32you texted me and it was perfect so here
00:35we are yeah i thought uh you know we had
00:37done some stuff earlier the uh the
00:39emotional toll that leaving scientology
00:42takes i gave myself the time that i
00:44needed i was like i can't you know push
00:46myself to do this thing that uh i wasn't
00:49ready for and then i was like i mean it
00:50just hit me one day i was just ready and
00:52leave you know the past times i talked
00:54about it i was still very sick shook it
00:56up uh i didn't really understand you
00:58know what was going on i was sort of
01:00like joining the flow without sort of
01:02figuring my own particular situation out
01:05and then that's and i did that took a
01:07year i can tell you that my
01:10past is like now
01:12so much clearer and
01:14i educated myself and it's like the more
01:17i learn about just general injustices
01:20that i had been shielded from
01:22just lights a [ __ ] fire
01:24under your ass and you just like start
01:26to tap your foot the days are going by
01:29and nothing's changing on their level i
01:31mean that's not even necessarily true
01:33because the tree has been shaken and the
01:35leaves are falling and
01:36yeah i just i'm not going to sit around
01:38anymore i'd prefer to um
01:41give the people an honest more
01:43reasonably realistic story rather than
01:45oh well i i had this three years it went
01:48bad and then i left it's like no like
01:50scientology corrupted my childhood and
01:53the way i processed things and the way
01:55my parents taught me and it's like these
01:57people have done way too much i think
01:59for me to keep it to myself i want to
02:01like share more of my side i guess
02:04yeah that makes sense so when you first
02:06publicly came out of scientology it was
02:08in a video that you posted to tic toc
02:09that got a crap ton of views millions of
02:12views i think you came out sort of with
02:13a bang
02:15but you said a moment ago you said you
02:16took a year does that mean it was a year
02:18since your first when since you first
02:20publicly put up that video a little more
02:22i like i i remember passing the year
02:25mark and realizing that i how much time
02:27had passed and i came out about my
02:31dad
02:32because there's there's so much context
02:35and so many different stories to tell i
02:37needed to get my truth out in a way that
02:39people would actually give a [ __ ] so who
02:41do they give a [ __ ] about you know they
02:42give a [ __ ] about the keto man my father
02:44who is not really the man who he
02:46portrays himself to be uh honestly and
02:49he does things out of malicious
02:51circumstance and when i ask him why why
02:54do you act in a way that sort of
02:56everything else is beneath you
02:58and it all goes back to scientology my
03:00parents are probably the biggest reason
03:01i left scientology because of just their
03:04mental state especially my mother i
03:06remember the thing the thing that set me
03:08off my dad recently within the past um
03:12two years bought this like massive
03:14massive farm in virginia you know dumped
03:17well over a few million dollars into it
03:20remember we we we were driving back it's
03:23like it was like a long ass drive so you
03:25were driving back uh from me just
03:27visiting it
03:28it's a lot of him gloating a lot of him
03:30being like ah
03:32all my exploitation pays off all my
03:34overcharging for those supplements and
03:37like taking the yearly test to be a
03:39chiropractor just so he can still hold
03:41the title he's not a real doctor so he
03:43has to like he has to do
03:45those sort of like rudimentary things
03:47that
03:48these people have to do to sort of like
03:49pretend to be legitimate
03:52you know we were driving back uh and he
03:54he was talking about how well he was
03:56doing at the org
03:57uh or with the church and how well he
03:59was uh doing on sales and he was like
04:02man
04:04i'm just absolute my reputation is
04:06absolutely bulletproof i don't know what
04:08something about that just like
04:09ricocheted through my entire childhood
04:12just like
04:13this
04:14egotistical man baby who spends 11 hours
04:17a day on youtube was telling me how
04:21he had some like superior
04:24you know this man didn't graduate from
04:26any medical college
04:27uh or like real like he doesn't have he
04:30doesn't know like virology he doesn't
04:32know any of these other things these are
04:33a youtube search away for him and where
04:37he gets his data but i'm not even
04:38familiar with his kind of beyond knowing
04:41that people consider him to be like the
04:43opinion leader
04:45in regards to the keto diet anyway
04:48how does he make where does most of his
04:49money come from is it selling
04:51supplements
04:52yeah so he followed the money on that
04:54one he got into keto uh when it started
04:56becoming like a big fad and then he
04:58would just like put all of his chips
05:00into that basket when he saw the return
05:02also because it's like a very simple
05:05diet it's like not hard he was like well
05:08i'm just gonna i'm just gonna make my
05:10own set of supplements and i'll say that
05:12i'm that they're all specifically
05:14designed for keto and that's what i was
05:16also instructed to say when i i trained
05:18his
05:18current
05:19sales team oh i don't know who's there
05:21now but when i worked for him he had
05:22keto consultants
05:24and i was there i was the qa i was the
05:27director of qa
05:28so quality assurance and i was
05:31maintaining all these keto consultants
05:33right
05:34using scientology
05:36completely because that's why i was
05:37hired where was i the um he loves to
05:40talk about how incredible his profit
05:42margins are because people trust him
05:45because he gives out so much free
05:47information like he makes youtube videos
05:49and like pamphlets and says oh wow this
05:51is it's all free from his perspective
05:55uh this gives him the right to
05:57immensely with his products
05:59and
06:00his data changes he sometimes forgets
06:03that he's already covered a topic so
06:05he'll research it and found out he's
06:06already made one and despite all of his
06:09boasting he has just like physically
06:11he's aged like 10 years in the past
06:14single year and i am just so interested
06:17to know like what management told him
06:21or what
06:22what my uh what his son being an sp has
06:25done to his sort of inner scientology
06:27social life because he was he was the o
06:29uh otc
06:31chair deputy of the americas because my
06:35mom was the
06:36otc chair so she ran the ot committee
06:39which is like obviously for people as
06:41like the the group of
06:43uh whatever scientologist has that much
06:45free time
06:47uh to
06:48work
06:49with other scientologists to like set up
06:51events or community propaganda seminars
06:55or whatever what do you think why why
06:57does your dad do so well in this keto
06:58space if he's not particularly an expert
07:01like he's known as an expert but you're
07:03saying right he really just researches
07:05on the fly why does he do so well in
07:07this space
07:08uh he breaks things down he wants to
07:11basically
07:12dumb down the subject
07:14as much as possible to communicate to
07:17the lowest common denominator of
07:20person he'll take something like
07:21cholesterol and be like cholesterol not
07:24what you think eggs not bad eat
07:27eggs i eat
07:28five eggs a day or whatever he says it's
07:30like so he's not actually an expert in
07:32the subjects he's discussing but he's
07:34good at taking information
07:36and explaining it in a way that's easy
07:38to understand
07:39yeah he relies mostly um
07:43on that because uh he
07:45lacks um a lot of
07:47uh good marketing skills anything that
07:50people keep coming back to he just
07:51doubles down you know he's had quizzes
07:53that he's used he's actually still using
07:55uh reusing old videos that he took
07:59years and years and years and years ago
08:01um and just recycling the same
08:03information uh i think agm does that for
08:06him agm does his uh
08:10his marketing um
08:13and i mean that that's like a whole
08:14other i could talk about the company
08:17and my relationship with that company uh
08:19in a whole other video but uh well let
08:21me ask you this you had mentioned that
08:22some of the people who have been
08:24watching your content you know comment
08:26that they've decided they don't think
08:28you're being honest or they don't
08:29believe what you're saying
08:32what is it that they what is it that
08:34you've said about your dad
08:37that people are calling into question it
08:39ranges i mean it i mean it ranges from
08:41you know uh people's being like oh i
08:44don't believe that he gives his money to
08:46scientology like how how could someone
08:48who's so nice on youtube do anything uh
08:51for a malicious nature and my favorite
08:54part is that he does that thing that
08:56many
08:57scientology influencers do
09:00and is pretend to be christian
09:02not in a public a vowed way but
09:07if you look at his comments god bless
09:09you
09:09christ is with you you are sent from the
09:12heavens he once i actually have an email
09:14saved where he sent me he was bragging
09:16because he had a comment that said used
09:17to he sent me a comment that said oh it
09:19doesn't get any better compliment than
09:20this and someone literally saying that
09:22she worships him like a god
09:25by word
09:27so he actually responds to people in a
09:30way
09:31to make them think he's a christian
09:33that's one of the that's one of the uh
09:36you know because he knows it's like a
09:37really
09:38a lot of a lot of susceptible people he
09:40doesn't believe in in god at all he once
09:42told me that he
09:44he was one of the beings
09:47who
09:48designed bodies
09:51when they were made
09:52he was there
09:55you know putting the pieces together and
09:57he was like it's all got to make sense
10:00and i'm
10:02like
10:02i i guess i just didn't know enough
10:04about the body at the time
10:06like anatomy period to ask a simple
10:08follow-up question but like this is what
10:10he believes he thinks that he was sent
10:13from
10:14some
10:15you know like he built him so he can fix
10:17them but then doesn't follow the rules
10:20of medical science it's a it's an
10:22interesting following so that's that's
10:23why he's such an expert because
10:26billions of years ago he was the one
10:27that helped design the structure
10:31and the
10:33endocrine systems and
10:35the hormone interactions that's why he
10:38knows the right keto recipe for your
10:40meatloaf
10:42yeah and it gets and he gets this uh he
10:44has this routine now this cycle sort of
10:46he he kind of figured out like you know
10:48his plan
10:50which he can now kind of apply to like
10:52any bodily issue like
10:54oh well you know your problem
10:56is because you have inflammation and you
10:58have inflammation because you eat sugar
11:00so cut out the sugar get on keto it's
11:02like every kind of problem he kind of
11:03relates to his plan being the best and
11:06we'll just put him on the basic plan
11:08what are a few of the most important
11:09things that you want to discuss what do
11:10you think is most
11:12most valuable for you to talk about my
11:14story is the same as everybody else's
11:17maybe i had a different relationship
11:20with my parents which influenced a lot
11:22of my need to leave but like it was the
11:25same as most other second generation
11:27scientologists during the isolation the
11:29there's like a bullet point list of how
11:32i realized and how i woke up from
11:34scientology and um there's just a lot of
11:38tiny things that just kind of proved
11:40what i had denied for so many years like
11:42i fought against all that i tried i
11:43wanted to be someone who like could
11:45laugh in the face of these
11:47allegations of scientology and and
11:50i thought i had my head on pretty
11:51straight you start entering logic into
11:54your everyday routine and that will
11:58directly conflict with the scientology
12:00process
12:01and you know the more you learn the less
12:03it makes sense i was terrified to do my
12:06ot levels
12:08because my mother had been in ot8 for
12:10years and she was a
12:12incredibly
12:14unbalanced person like
12:16a very spiteful hateful
12:19uh
12:20uh very closet racist which caught me
12:23off guard even but uh
12:25you know it's she's got some a very
12:28private like sort of violence in inside
12:31of her that i feel like i i was sort of
12:33blaming on myself
12:35uh because you you know you have overts
12:37oh well that's why you're critical i'm
12:39sure you know you could have handled it
12:40better which yeah could have handled
12:42being an occult better
12:44if i had known
12:46[ __ ] at any point in my goddamn life
12:48i remember being a child this is such a
12:50bizarre memory i remember getting this
12:52off in a in a in one of my
12:55um
12:57one of my many sec checks i had
13:00uh while i was uh at flag i remember
13:04it's so morbid that i was looking at it
13:07uh before and in a different light but
13:09it was uh i was a child and i was
13:11walking into the fraser mansion because
13:12i grew up in uh
13:14uh the dc area like uh in northern
13:16virginia so like the dc org was like my
13:18org um
13:21and i remember walking into the fraser
13:22mansion as a child and there was a
13:24person outside
13:26who handed me a a little pamphlet
13:29from a little basket and that pamphlet
13:31had a big alien head on it and it was
13:32like in this black folded up thing and
13:34it was like talking about did somebody
13:36just handed it to me and i was like okay
13:38but like
13:39i brought it inside i couldn't even read
13:42i was like i was like so incredibly
13:44young i was like i didn't really know
13:45what i was looking at it just said like
13:47xenu and blah blah and i was like
13:51that doesn't look weird
13:53this is this is weird and somebody took
13:54it away from me and i got in trouble for
13:56that
13:58i couldn't even read i remember my mom
14:00making it seem like people who talk [ __ ]
14:02about scientology are bank rolling i was
14:05like oh that's scary it was just a funny
14:07afterthought to see like
14:10this world that she had to paint for me
14:12to kind of show me how wrong i would be
14:14for leaving or how awful but then again
14:17the church is still asking for her money
14:19so she's still bankrolling them
14:22getting scammed and uh you know he and
14:24my dad is scamming
14:27well
14:28he's selling the vitamins selling
14:30vitamins and selling vitamins it's it is
14:32what it is but like just the attitude
14:34that he has behind it he like actively
14:37is uh uh trying to set up a foreign
14:40office so that he can
14:42say that he lives in a in a different
14:44place you know kind of a tax haven sort
14:45of situation he wants to set up an
14:46office out of the states to sort of be
14:49run by nobody uh have a couple people
14:51employed there to just like keep the
14:53lights on so that he can um have even
14:55higher profit margins
14:56it's his motivation towards the whole
14:58thing that kind of like steamrolls over
14:59people with actual problems who don't
15:01agree with them it just doesn't matter
15:03you know he he's uh he doesn't give a
15:06[ __ ] if you if you don't agree with him
15:08totally he's not even gonna take the
15:10time a day to grace you with his
15:13attention or his presence he you know he
15:16pays he pays people to tell
15:19his
15:20critics to [ __ ] off you know the
15:21supplements industry in general is such
15:24a
15:24shady um
15:27fraudulent
15:29lucrative industry i mean some of my
15:31favorite youtube channels are channels
15:33where experts actually break down what's
15:35really in these things and what they
15:36really do and all this kind of stuff um
15:39and maybe one of the reasons your dad is
15:40successful in this industry is he puts a
15:42very
15:43uh trusting
15:45friendly
15:47uh
15:47i don't know you might say attractive
15:49face on a shady
15:51lucrative industry and makes out
15:54like a bandit you know um yeah i think
15:57anyone tuning in uh you know to you for
15:59the first time would probably have two
16:00major uh questions or reactions like one
16:03first oh [ __ ] dr eric berg's a
16:06scientologist there's so many people who
16:07i just i mean i did the video i did
16:10wasn't even about him the video i did
16:12was about a report that your mom wrote
16:14on grant cardone yeah and um
16:17that was a great one
16:19and yet so many of the comments are like
16:20oh my god i've been following dr berg
16:22for years now i'm going to unsubscribe
16:24because i'm not willing to support
16:25scientology so the two responses would
16:27be oh my god dr berg's a scientologist i
16:29can't believe it and and their second
16:31question is most likely to be
16:33well you're his son you grew up in it
16:35what on earth
16:36made you
16:37leave was it some single horrible
16:40thing was it a lifetime of abuse was it
16:43more due to scientology as a subject or
16:46more due to your parents
16:48as people and
16:51it's really hard to answer any question
16:53like that in five minutes or five hours
16:55but
16:56what would be the headline for you like
16:59the reason i left because it's also not
17:02just one reason but what would it be
17:04what was very hardly one reason yeah
17:07but how would you address that question
17:10um i had just been i was just done like
17:13i was sick of it like i had been made
17:15i'd sort of been targeted because i um
17:19i was different i guess as a child i
17:22you know sort of expressed certain um
17:26signs of certain like
17:29behavioral patterns i guess that my
17:31parents
17:32didn't like you know i um
17:35on my journey of figuring out like what
17:36was happening with me i realized that i
17:39uh i more than likely have been on the
17:41spectrum for autism so
17:43but i lack the money to get that like
17:46confirmed with a doctor but many many
17:47many signs uh just for me specifically
17:49you know it's very personal thing
17:51obviously but
17:52um
17:53you know there was a a lot of shock when
17:56i was learning about like what help i
17:58could have had or like you know these
18:01things these behavioral things that i
18:02had as a kid
18:04i couldn't explain it and my entire life
18:06i'd sort of attributed all of these
18:09mental facilities or behavioral patterns
18:11to like something broken from before
18:15mainly because of how my parents treated
18:16me you know it was you are upstat or you
18:19are a db a degraded being um which is
18:23completely
18:24hot or cold like night and day in the
18:26berg household you are
18:28upstat or uh we canceled your birthday
18:31which uh i actually found a report my
18:34mom had written to the uh uh hco of dc
18:38he was like
18:3912 or
18:4013 or something and i kept taking the
18:43house phone to talk to a girl
18:45that i had met online she lived in some
18:48other state you know we just
18:49i
18:50i didn't have any other friends so i
18:51would just like talk to this girl and i
18:53i wasn't allowed to use the phone during
18:55night time
18:56but uh
18:58she caught me a couple times and then
19:00apparently i mean
19:02i don't remember
19:04exactly that whole time it was a little
19:07fuzzy for me but
19:08i read in the report that she said well
19:10he's been taking the phone he's not
19:12listening to me so
19:13uh we've
19:14he we will no longer be celebrating his
19:16birthday this year
19:18my mother is not a well
19:20person uh and i had been kicked around a
19:23lot and put through the wringer uh you
19:25know i have a million examples but it's
19:26it's a long road of being the punching
19:28bag and sort of being socially held
19:31hostage
19:33by my family and also their status my
19:36status is their status so i can't make
19:38them look bad obviously i was a very
19:40like reserved beaten down person so when
19:43i got to the bottom i uh became very
19:46bleak and uh i saw not very many ways
19:49out so i um
19:51you know wanted to end it and i wanted
19:54to get my story out before i did that
19:56all that all that aside i didn't expect
19:58it to explode i expected somebody to
20:00find it and i would be could be long
20:03gone by then but uh the pain turned into
20:06anger i feel this thing that i was you
20:09know bullied over my entire life isn't
20:12even a thing it's like a i've been
20:14staring at a painting of a ferris wheel
20:16thinking i'm on the ride you know and
20:18in reality i'm on a not a [ __ ] ferris
20:20wheel
20:22when you say the thing you've been
20:23bullied over do you mean scientology
20:25yeah oh yeah absolutely any any any uh
20:28inability to uh communicate effectively
20:31or learn or or they just you mean being
20:34you mean being bullied by your parents
20:37i mean essentially through most of my
20:39interactions as a scientologist the
20:41terminals that i work with have sort of
20:44i've arrived to them
20:46like by negative connotation and then
20:48they're usually oh wow he's such a
20:50bright kid i had a lot of pre-recorded
20:52personalities
20:53to kind of play
20:56the part of guy who's fitting in really
20:58well i went to training at flag uh i was
21:02there i was told i was supposed to be
21:03there for four months i was there for 11
21:04months and half of that was spent in
21:06ethics because i had met a girl and that
21:09was a whole messy scenario i met a i met
21:11a girl who i thought was really cool you
21:12know we had a lot in common and i was
21:14like oh cool you know i've had a lot of
21:15friends that were girls so it was like
21:16no problem like i'm on training i'm not
21:18going to get in a relationship but you
21:19know she's cool people just wrote
21:21reports on us we were too interested in
21:23each other's conversations so they
21:24report wrote reports on us
21:26uh and they just spread rumors and uh
21:29the entire flag building was like
21:31watching us and we were separated just
21:33for being friends and that actually
21:34became the catalyst for my interest in
21:37her romantically we were two like
21:40neglected children in a cult they they
21:42sex-checked me a lot when they thought
21:43they were like
21:44we want to get the truth out of you and
21:46i was like okay they're like do you find
21:47her attractive i'm like yeah you're like
21:49do you want to date her i was like well
21:50it's not something you should do on the
21:52program so i was just going to be your
21:53friend
21:54and they didn't like that answer because
21:55it sounded too simple it was too direct
21:58eventually uh you know after everyone
22:01had
22:02you know was up my ass about it i
22:03started to say well i might as well see
22:05what's up so we eventually got together
22:07when she left the program and you know
22:09we were given permission to be in a
22:11relationship now that she was gone uh
22:13she came back to the program which i
22:15guess she wasn't supposed to do were you
22:17still there you're already gone yeah i
22:19was still there she came back a few
22:21months later and um
22:23uh they saw us holding hands and they i
22:26guess you know they knew we we were
22:28being romantic with each other and and i
22:30guess people above my maa didn't like
22:32that so they overrode his previous
22:35decision and
22:36separated us again
22:38during that time
22:39the the this is a this is an an acronym
22:42that i hate that i still remember but
22:44the dfcc ipo for oots she's like head
22:48[ __ ] of all the flag training and and
22:51who was it by the way
22:53uh kyra stanzani i think her name is
22:55schumacher now cause she got diverse
22:57divorced she was so personally upset by
23:01the conte by the concept of me having a
23:04romantic interest in anyone and it was
23:07it was a funny it was like the way she
23:08worded it she was personally hurt but
23:10even in how she described it to me in
23:12person and just the whole air i had this
23:14running joke that she actually was
23:16jealous and she was she wanted me to
23:18join this the sea org so that we could
23:20be together and i i'm i'm very
23:22sorry but uh she was not my type
23:26so she see if you see this uh kira i
23:29my bad but yeah
23:31so she comes back we get all this all
23:34the ethics
23:35actions you can physically give someone
23:37we didn't do anything dishonest they
23:40just decided to offload both of us so uh
23:44she was offloaded
23:46and that night the night we she was
23:48supposed to leave because they got her
23:50the flight 4am the next morning i
23:52proposed to her and it was like and when
23:54she went back to australia australia
23:56right
23:57yeah we were long distance for like
24:00almost a year
24:01and uh and she came to visit and it was
24:04fine and then she had to leave again and
24:05then i went to visit her
24:07and before i went to visit her there was
24:09a period of time where i went to flag i
24:13was on staff at atlanta and i was a
24:15trained hgc auditor in atlanta um class
24:18five
24:19so i was doing like a lot of ned for
24:22um
24:23the staff because there was no public i
24:25was i kind of was only doing staff i
24:27would go home
24:28and i would just
24:30be
24:31just horribly depressed and just like i
24:34started drinking and uh it's an
24:36unhealthy amount i had and then i
24:38stopped i wasn't doing well so i was
24:40like i'm gonna go do superpower because
24:42i need all the qualifications for that
24:44because even after i went clear my
24:46problems did not go away
24:48i go to uh i fight to go to flag because
24:51i'm saying i'm literally like dying uh i
24:54worked it out so that ruby my wife or my
24:57fiance at the time could go to flag at
25:00the same time and so we could get
25:02married and then i could do superpower
25:04and her her family runs the org in perth
25:07australia they thought that they could
25:09send her out there and she could get
25:10some training and that would be a good
25:11justification they could finish up her
25:13training um we we came together and then
25:16we got married
25:17and you know she got auditing
25:20while i was trying to do superpower
25:23and then uh i was in session i had this
25:26cognition you know i feel like uh staff
25:28isn't really you know my lifetime
25:30purpose i feel like my lifetime purpose
25:31is like to be a a writer a filmmaker i i
25:35love uh you know
25:37the idea of creating like a world and
25:39and creating stories my auditor didn't
25:41like this because i said staff wasn't my
25:44main purpose
25:45and then
25:46she wrote that up i was taken off
25:48superpower and for five months i was
25:51told to remain in the superpower in the
25:55fort harrison uh either only being in my
25:57room or making amends and this is all
26:01because you said that you didn't think
26:03staff was your purpose
26:04yeah i also said was like well i'm not
26:06gonna quit because i signed the contract
26:08so you weren't saying that you wanted to
26:10leave you weren't saying that you were
26:11going to leave you just said it's not
26:13really my purpose and they take you off
26:15superpower and now you're in five months
26:16of trouble
26:18what was the basis for the lower
26:20condition if you weren't saying that you
26:21wanted to leave
26:23it was a doubt
26:24i was put into doubt
26:26but you weren't saying that you wanted
26:27to leave
26:28yeah i know
26:30but they didn't care they put me into
26:32doubt maa at the time at flag i just
26:34told her i was like i'm not [ __ ]
26:35doing this anymore i'm not doing amends
26:37and she's like well you have to get your
26:38act together i'm like what is it
26:40contributing if i'm not even allowed to
26:42finish
26:43the condition that i started
26:46what do you mean you're not allowed to
26:47finish
26:48she wouldn't sign it i did i did
26:49everything and i i she was like oh do
26:51more here and i did that i'll do you
26:53know change a little bit here okay i did
26:54that i was ready i was i did absolutely
26:57everything and i was doing everything
26:59for
27:00i'd say four of the five of those months
27:03i didn't want to be on staff at the end
27:05i was like just get me out of here i
27:06just want to go home i just want to go
27:08home i want to go home i want to
27:09transfer i'll transfer to dc if i have
27:11to to be near my family i just don't
27:13want to be here i tell uh the auditor um
27:16that i
27:17i'm having these thoughts and you know
27:19this is just common for me i've been
27:20having these three years
27:22uh but i'm not gonna do it i mean
27:25i'm thinking about it and then they were
27:26like oh okay well you know i'll get that
27:29information in the maa and then i'm
27:30pulled in and they're like so we want to
27:32go
27:33over what you told the auditor uh it
27:35says here that you were feeling suicidal
27:37and i was like
27:39yeah no i but i've said that you know
27:41before and they're like oh but we didn't
27:43but you were like serious we thought
27:45that was like old stuff
27:47and i was like oh well no that's just
27:48been like my whole life
27:51and they were like
27:52oh well
27:54okay okay well we're gonna look at this
27:56and we'll let you know less like
27:59maybe an hour later
28:01i'm i get a i get a call saying
28:05you got to be out tonight
28:07you have to you have to find somewhere
28:09to stay tonight you have to put all of
28:10the stuff from your hotel that you've
28:13had in there for [ __ ]
28:15five months all the like random [ __ ]
28:17i've accumulated you know
28:19i talked to my wife about it
28:21and uh
28:23she ends up the next day without telling
28:25me
28:27calling my parents and telling them that
28:29i was having these thoughts
28:32and this was
28:34sort of where
28:36now everyone knew
28:39that i didn't give a [ __ ] that i was
28:41like done done and they were very
28:44sensitive now they were very like in
28:46damage control they were very in like
28:48oh no now this looks bad you know
28:50obviously not even just being kicked out
28:52of flag because if i kill myself it'll
28:54look bad for flag but
28:57that my family is now trying to gaslight
28:59me my mom's saying
29:01once you get up the bridge you know
29:02emotions aren't really what you think
29:04they are and but you'll see that and i'm
29:05like you're the least helpful person
29:09in the universe
29:11i mean what she meant was that it's your
29:13body pains that are making you have
29:14these thoughts it's not you right yeah
29:17after but did you know that at the time
29:19well you wouldn't have right no well no
29:22i had done i had i had been i'd been
29:24down that road like i had seen um like
29:26the south park episode or whatever and i
29:28was like i was on the
29:30i was on the it was it was when i was
29:32getting on the ship that i had to tell
29:34them i was like
29:36well like you know
29:37we already kind of believe in aliens so
29:39it wasn't crazy but like you know
29:40there's this whole like xenu thing i saw
29:42on tv and i looked into it and it was it
29:44was lrh talking and they just gassing me
29:46into thinking that oh it's probably
29:48probably nothing probably something i
29:49don't have context for in the future
29:51like i'm not at a level of scientology
29:53where
29:54it would make sense but i don't know any
29:57better so i'll just believe them but
29:59they just lied to me
30:01uh and my parents lied to me as well
30:04um about that but i routed off i went
30:06back to atlanta packed my [ __ ] did as
30:08much of the routing form
30:10uh as i could uh and i just took all my
30:12[ __ ] and i went back to dc and i had
30:15like the first like week
30:18to relax that i had had in years
30:21and then i went to australia
30:23spent some time with um
30:28my wife ruby
30:29and then i started watching um
30:32because i was like i wasn't going to go
30:34in session anytime in the near future so
30:35i to myself i was like well
30:39i need a full perspective on this now
30:40because something's wrong so i started
30:42watching just i wanted to be i wanted to
30:45i didn't want to know what the media
30:46said i want to hear from scientologists
30:48so i was doing i i watched like all the
30:50movies and all the interviews and there
30:52were some that were just
30:53you know a real
30:55discredit to the interviewee like uh
30:58david miscavige's father which that was
30:59like a
31:01that was rough the interview that he did
31:03with joe rogan
31:05yeah that was wrong that was very rough
31:07uh
31:08but i started to see now that
31:09scientology was doing these things these
31:11contradictions that i saw in real life
31:14were the confirmations for these things
31:16that i was seeing outside uh and i was
31:19sort of explaining this to my wife at
31:22the time and she became very
31:24she was empathetic until it came to the
31:26topic of scientology which i said you
31:28know after i left like a month or so or
31:31two had gone by and
31:35i was still sort of
31:38figuring out what i wanted to do now
31:39that i was like not going back to
31:41scientology and i wanted to
31:44go to college and uh you know do on it
31:47was pete covet i think so i wanted to do
31:49like online film school and
31:51uh my mom was like actually 25 000 a
31:54year that's that's too expensive honey
31:56i'm sorry
31:58you might have to get you're just gonna
31:59have to you know
32:01you know pull yourself up and do that
32:02yourself um and then they proceeded to
32:05buy like a multi-million dollar farm
32:07[Music]
32:08and fill it with
32:11ridiculously expensive like antique
32:14knickknacks and like
32:16a whole
32:17gun
32:18[ __ ]
32:19like gun range an old western town
32:23they're building on so that like my
32:25father who's never touched a power tool
32:27in his life can build a birdhouse in his
32:29new
32:30uh workshop it's like
32:33uh it sets the perspective also that he
32:36where his priorities are like i i'm
32:38trying to move on in a way that like
32:40sure yeah my education was [ __ ] up
32:43because i went to all these scientology
32:45schools but like i still had the
32:48the idea that like well
32:50if i follow what i'm interested in
32:53i'll figure it out um
32:55and so i i dropped it i was like you
32:58know what you're right that does sound
32:59like a lot of money i've never seen that
33:00much money in my life i'm living with
33:02them at this point we're in kind of like
33:03a vacuum chamber of
33:06them tiptoeing around me but still
33:07trying to like manipulate me and going
33:09on long walks where they can talk to me
33:11about
33:12my dad can talk to me about how uh
33:16you know son
33:19i used to watch porn your mom didn't
33:22like it
33:24and i'm like sounds like your [ __ ]
33:25problem dude i really would rather not
33:28be on this goofy-ass golf course
33:30uh
33:32uh
33:33you know bringing up [ __ ] that like the
33:34only [ __ ] that they ever knew
33:36that was ever wrong like you know the
33:38things that they the buttons that they
33:39knew to push uh maybe in the past
33:42whether it be uh my prob my like you
33:45know any past uh
33:47relationships that i've had or uh you
33:49know things that i did that they thought
33:51were you know degrading i mean that's
33:53something every scientologist deals with
33:54but
33:56at the end
33:59you know he said i i think
34:01i feel like my reputation is bulletproof
34:05and it and i kind of like just it just
34:08it went in
34:09and just
34:11stayed
34:12and i went home
34:14and i laid in bed
34:16and i was sitting there and i was like
34:22realizing that
34:25he's gonna he is gonna grow and he's
34:27gonna get this popularity and he's gonna
34:29get success regardless of
34:32any bad things he does or that he
34:34supports like there's a reason that my
34:37father does not appear in public often
34:39or respond publicly after i left
34:41scientology publicly after i made those
34:43tick tocks
34:44uh and you know made a youtube video
34:47he stopped doing his live show
34:52the way he was doing it before and then
34:54started a pre-recorded pre-selected live
34:56show where people are only allowed to
34:59talk about specific topics and they have
35:00to be pre-selected
35:02so he can sort he can funnel away all
35:04the scientology
35:06stuff
35:07and uh
35:09it's just i mean it's just like the same
35:11kind of cowardice that mo that like
35:13scientology
35:16does but i mean the confirmation
35:18bias i guess for me was
35:21when i stood my ground about like
35:23wanting to
35:25you know be
35:27my own person not to ask permission to
35:29live life
35:31and not have to ask permission from a
35:32church to live life and what about these
35:35interviews that the church denies exist
35:37or that i'm watching with my own eyes
35:40simple things that why would the church
35:42even need to lie about that like i
35:45all these pieces are just coming
35:46together and and
35:48you know my brother doesn't have answers
35:50his answers are
35:51well you know what lrh says about black
35:53pr
35:54or you know what lrh says about
35:56uh it's like i don't give a [ __ ] anymore
36:00nothing he said has helped me
36:02uh
36:03in the way that it was supposed to you
36:05know in hindsight yeah
36:07being uh conditioned
36:10uh to sit in a in a room and hold my
36:12bladder for uh
36:14six to seven hours at a time
36:17has come in handy here and there sure
36:20it's not worth the ptsd and it's not
36:22worth the like the flashbacks and the uh
36:26and also at the end you know talking to
36:28ruby about it she um i said i don't want
36:30to raise my kids in scientology and she
36:34called me and that's all i said i was
36:36gonna approach like a conversation about
36:38it
36:39and um
36:41she was up i mean i clearly she was
36:43appalled you know she she
36:46then just conveniently came up with this
36:50whole list of behaviors that
36:52you know i had changed i wasn't the man
36:54she married you know i was this
36:56weird like i'm like you know what overt
36:59uh must i be committing or like what
37:02what world must uh i be like diverting
37:05into or what conspiracies am i buying
37:07into you know you can be you you don't
37:09have to be a scientologist
37:11and you know
37:12you know you don't have to be in
37:13scientology you know they're only going
37:15to
37:16come after you if you like go to the
37:17press and in hindsight that
37:20is funnier than it was at the time
37:22because i couldn't really see the irony
37:24in it
37:25but
37:26all i saw
37:28was
37:29a future where
37:31i was
37:32in parallel with
37:34this woman that i was in love with who
37:36was
37:38the only thing that was happening in her
37:40life was scientology and all the great
37:41things scientology was doing for her
37:43allegedly i mean obviously that wasn't
37:45what was happening she was ready to
37:46leave with me also but she changed her
37:48mind very quickly she i remember her
37:50telling me at flag that if they force us
37:52to not be together
37:54like if they force us to separate after
37:55we had already been married she would
37:56leave the church but she
37:58conveniently
38:00forgot about that
38:01um because then i was like all right
38:03well
38:04would you leave like she was getting mad
38:06at me because i
38:07i um
38:09i couldn't imagine
38:11like she couldn't imagine i just
38:13not be in scientology and then when i
38:15said well would you leave scientology
38:17for me she said no
38:19so when i came out at the end and i made
38:21this tick tock and i was at a very low
38:22place and i decided you know [ __ ] it
38:24um
38:26i'll bring the whole [ __ ] [ __ ] down
38:28with me
38:30i
38:31had no idea
38:33that my life would change how it did
38:35um
38:37still kind of uh
38:39it's just gotten so spicy you know
38:41people coming out of the woodwork and
38:42showing you who they truly are
38:44and you live in this like
38:47new
38:49more helpful
38:51place like all the there are people who
38:53reach out to me all the time who tell me
38:55that like i saw your video and i it
38:57inspired me to leave
38:58were you already divorced by the time
39:00you
39:01put up your first tick tock on
39:02scientology
39:04we had decided to do the divorce papers
39:07yes and but she has since blocked me so
39:10we were never really able to
39:11[Music]
39:13do that which is great uh ruby if you're
39:15watching this
39:17uh uh if you want to get divorced uh
39:20you just email me because i don't have a
39:22phone number right now but
39:24you have literally every means to
39:26contact me
39:28so
39:29just whenever you're whenever you want
39:31or if you need help leaving also hit me
39:33up i'm good for that too uh
39:36you're still legally married
39:38yeah
39:39wow she lives 12 000 miles away
39:43and the church hasn't tried to
39:46facilitate
39:48the worst that's really surprising or
39:51she she hired this local seemingly local
39:53attorney i was contacted by this office
39:56it's a shitty website and they uh
40:00it's really like we will be handling uh
40:02miss bromwell's
40:03uh
40:04you know divorce she's filing for
40:06divorce papers and because i didn't have
40:07a job at the time i actually left i was
40:09working for my dad so i was no longer
40:10working for him after i left scientology
40:12um because you have to be a
40:14scientologist to work for my dad
40:16um
40:16so it looked like when she hired like a
40:18like an attorney who was gonna help send
40:20the papers and they kept asking me for
40:22my address
40:25and when i would respond with my address
40:27they wouldn't respond
40:29after that and when i would respond with
40:31clarification they wouldn't respond
40:33and days and days and days would go by
40:36and then i moved
40:39but
40:41i didn't have a legal address
40:43so i had to so i had to um
40:46i i just i gave them an address where i
40:48knew i could go pick it up
40:51and um
40:52they said they sent it and they said it
40:54arrived but it was nowhere to be found
40:55and i said hey
40:57if you'd like to fix this i'm like i
40:59tried to follow up several times but i
41:01never got a response back from anybody
41:02so it's very interesting somebody was
41:03just
41:04probing me with a legitimate reason for
41:06me to give them my
41:08current location and then just ghost me
41:10when i
41:13you know trying to do something very you
41:14know is things without trying to be as
41:17paranoid as
41:19you know uh
41:22i was earlier uh you know
41:26reasonable confusion and circumstance
41:28it's like that's suspicious
41:31was that really uh
41:33is that really a lawyer because i feel
41:34like the lawyer would have also wanted
41:35to get uh
41:37this done you know
41:40it just didn't it's possible that the
41:41laws in australia are such that if they
41:43file
41:44paperwork and don't get a response in a
41:46certain amount of time
41:48that it's automatically
41:50uh the marriage is automatically
41:51dissolved like is that is that a
41:53possibility
41:54that stands to i mean that's that
41:56logically that makes sense like in a
41:58developed nation i knew that uh
42:01eventually i would have to move because
42:03the first thing that happened when i
42:04posted the video was my dad drove four
42:06hours from his farmhouse
42:08to my house to bang on my door for half
42:10an hour and scream at me to coerce me to
42:12get
42:13me to take the video down
42:15i didn't answer the door
42:17the neighbors ended up calling the
42:18police and telling him to uh leave
42:22and that was pretty funny i should have
42:24recorded it but what if the police have
42:26body cam footage of that
42:34did i lose you
42:36oh i heard every
42:39beautiful word you just said
42:42the just the idea
42:45i mean alexandria no if the police if
42:48the police
42:49had body cams when they showed up
42:51you can submit a freedom of information
42:53act request for
42:55i want the footage
42:57i want the footage from the officers who
42:59showed up at this location
43:01on this date between this time and this
43:04time and they will give you the footage
43:07i actually have the exact date and time
43:10because he was texting me from outside
43:12my door so i can definitely do that i
43:14might
43:16um but and i also was hearing through
43:19the grapevine all these different things
43:21how they mysteriously
43:23uh the whole family packed up and left
43:27the state for a month
43:28so even though you had you know some
43:30crazy experiences
43:32uh you know being mistreated within the
43:34organization and flag and stuff like
43:36that
43:37it still it seems like based on what
43:39you've said that
43:41it's actually your parents
43:44um your relationship with them
43:47is almost more what made you go
43:49yeah this is
43:51my parents were always
43:52sort of bumbling hateful people
43:56sort of
43:58doing everything incorrectly and
43:59wondering why their lives are so [ __ ]
44:01awful
44:02uh i didn't know any better at the time
44:04so i had no idea what i was looking at
44:06but
44:08i realized that they weren't interested
44:10in helping me figure it out so i had to
44:11just go do my own thing so i was
44:13neglected for like a huge portion of
44:15that and when
44:17um i got the idea the impression at a
44:19very young age that they were already
44:21very tired from having two children so
44:22that i was just like
44:24i was just there that's why there
44:25weren't like a lot of pictures of me as
44:27a kid and you know they didn't really
44:29try as hard and they didn't like pay
44:31attention to me as much as because i was
44:33the third one and i would they were just
44:34exhausted so i already felt like a
44:36burden you just get this idea that you
44:38your parents are i'm sorry i got this
44:40idea that my parents
44:42didn't like me so
44:44my association with scientology
44:47and leaving
44:49had to do when i intersected in
44:52scientology professionally when i became
44:53more knowledgeable in scientology
44:57than my parents
44:59that's when i started to realize that
45:01not only
45:03are they below me in this social sort of
45:06stance in this in this capability and
45:09that's what they're doing that's why
45:10they get hateful and violent is because
45:13they they don't have like that capacity
45:15to to reach that level of like human
45:18interaction that like it's just it has
45:19to be violence it has to be hot or cold
45:22i was like oh
45:23i'm gonna be like them if i keep going
45:26on this road
45:27and
45:28you know i didn't want to do
45:30that you were young did you go by burb
45:33or has it always been raphael yeah my my
45:37grandfather um
45:39uh
45:41uh on my mom's side his name was henry
45:42raffalco he uh
45:44he was a really uh
45:47positive um
45:48[Music]
45:50guy when i was growing up one of the few
45:51people i actually really enjoyed being
45:53around when he died
45:54um and my my mom
45:57just hadn't she didn't want to do
45:58anything with the name all my most of
46:00the people in my
46:01on my mom's side
46:03are are
46:05mostly dead so
46:08and i didn't really feel like a bird at
46:10all
46:10um so and berg is a
46:13kind of a goofy last name
46:15i when i wanted to be a uh uh actor
46:18director guy i was really getting into
46:20that
46:21earlier on i was like i need a stage
46:23name so i was just gonna be ian rafalco
46:25and then i kind of just realized to you
46:26know pay him respect
46:28and then
46:29just kind of
46:31stuck for me and i never legally changed
46:33it because um
46:35my dad told me that if i changed my name
46:37he would cut me out of the will
46:38and i was i had nothing i was like damn
46:41if i'm getting anything it's going to be
46:42that
46:43[ __ ] whatever's in his will but he's
46:46uh
46:47i'm i'm sure i cut myself
46:50right out of that will anyway
46:52so you were going by rafalco
46:54well before you left scientology yeah
46:57socially i mean you know names are names
47:00you know but yeah it was it was more of
47:02like uh
47:05you know i liked it more and
47:07meant
47:07a little bit more than berg did he's
47:10already being forced to be in a cult so
47:11being forced to be a bird felt like
47:13overkill that's a berg berg it's like
47:16does not roll off the tongue well
47:18so
47:18has the church reached out to try to
47:20handle you at all
47:22have you been approached by anybody
47:24contacted by any of those people
47:27um i've been cont up they you know the
47:31the internet trolling that they do is
47:34probably the most contact i get because
47:36it's very specific and it's very obvious
47:39and like
47:40she'll just get these comments on my
47:41youtube or my tick tock it'll be like
47:44oh haha we love you anyway tell us more
47:46about the the the scientologists who are
47:48reaching out to you
47:50aha we love you and it's like
47:54you
47:56on my main account want me to
47:59talk about
48:01you want me to expose
48:03people
48:05who i know who reach out to me because
48:06they don't
48:08want to go public about scientology but
48:09they still want to
48:11yeah no thanks osa so it's just the
48:14whole it's just like a funny like
48:16it bongles my mind
48:17how simple these people are but that's
48:19the most contact i get i've tried many
48:22times actually to have a
48:24even reasonable conversation with any
48:26member of my family um
48:28and they run and they block me and my
48:31sister reached out to me recently told
48:33me to stop being a sheep
48:34which i thought was just wholly ironic
48:37uh and when i responded before i could
48:39respond she had already blocked me so
48:41you know it's like this it's this little
48:43like
48:44you know throwing a rock out the window
48:46then slamming it shut kind of like
48:49i caught the rock i'm willing to have a
48:51conversation
48:53it's just
48:54i i know from personal experience that
48:56you're afraid
48:58to confront the topics
49:01that
49:02we have to to climb over this hill
49:05because it might change your mind
49:07if everyone in my life is so afraid of
49:10having a conversation with me
49:13that they have to block me before i'm
49:15even able to respond once
49:18i must be saying
49:21something right something that like
49:24actually makes an impact i i need people
49:26to know
49:28that the optical illusion that is
49:30scientology as a big strong corporate
49:33entity
49:34is like
49:35very
49:36not that way they are cowardly even in
49:39the community even in the community here
49:41one thing
49:43that osa does particularly lisa mansell
49:48she talks to non-scientologists in the
49:51community negatively about other
49:54non-scientologists
49:56in the community like oh yeah this
49:58person he just doesn't like us because
50:00we're son like she'll talk [ __ ] about
50:02but she'll never talk to the person
50:04themselves never she'll never be like
50:06her hey i want to talk to you i want to
50:08handle you and figure out what your
50:10problem is no it's just chatter chatter
50:12all over everywhere else
50:14you know when i first left i was like oh
50:15if i see any scientologists on the
50:17street i'm going to fall to pieces but
50:18now
50:21oh boy i hope i hope the second
50:25ever landed in florida again i have a i
50:28have a small little
50:29party waiting for me i i just like
50:32i'm not going to say what i'm going to
50:33do because i want them to be genuinely
50:35surprised but
50:36i
50:38what what year would that have been um
50:40what year was that you were last at flag
50:43uh i was like 20 was it 202 it was
50:45probably 2019
50:48okay
50:48so just for the sake of documenting it
50:51how many um sea org members would you
50:54guess
50:55were on staff at flag
50:57well now
50:58well now we had now this is uh the
51:01reason i have
51:03i'm gonna give you this number is
51:05because we did the photo shoot i was
51:07there when they did the the all so photo
51:10shoot where everyone stood outside and
51:12they had the big drone shot and when
51:14they when they show what on in the
51:16events when they show like outside in
51:18clearwater uh
51:20the thousands of people all this all
51:22these serial members uh
51:24that's just everyone that's
51:26staff that are visiting
51:28oots
51:30obviously in the back so it looks so you
51:32can't make them out but it looks bigger
51:34and uh sea org members and i think it
51:37was about
51:40at the time
51:41uh
51:42which this was about early
51:452018 i think
51:48there was like
51:4920
51:52300 total in clear water
51:55but i knew that there were so much
51:57but now so let me know
52:00well i'll say it back to you to make
52:01sure i've understood it correctly
52:03so
52:04local staff members that i'm going to
52:06guess that includes tampa that includes
52:08bel air
52:10um
52:11see the seared members who work on the
52:13flag base and out org trainees from all
52:15over the world whether they're staff
52:17members or seer
52:18yeah so minus them i'd say it's probably
52:21somewhere around like
52:25at the time it was uh like a little over
52:27a thousand because i don't think they
52:28could have inflated that number maybe
52:311500 like they pulled everybody for the
52:33it was like a photo so it was like a
52:34whole day you know
52:36we actually it was closed off uh to the
52:38public uh most things were because we we
52:40were funneled right from the mess hall
52:42in the bottom of the flag building under
52:44underground uh out the back
52:47into that lot they already put walls up
52:50i think where they were gonna put uh
52:51where they wanted to put um well they
52:53said they were gonna put elren hubbard
52:54hall like right right on that
52:58yeah between well the lot between the
53:01flag building and where the buses are in
53:02the parking structure yeah exactly okay
53:05so how many public would you say were on
53:08lines that flag when you were there the
53:10last yeah the last time i was there was
53:12just before kovitz started and there
53:14were a lot of foreign people entering
53:17the country from
53:18asia and also a lot of italian
53:22uh public uh judging on the like the
53:25course rooms and how full they were
53:27maybe like 200
53:30and like 50 public like intermittently i
53:33mean i i could i wasn't in the htc but
53:35like oh friday night graduation they
53:37were having a hard time filling it uh at
53:39the end
53:40well i mean usually they fill it with
53:42staff and search members as well but
53:44like if you had to guess how many public
53:46they're able to round up to come to flag
53:48graduation on a friday night and the
53:50reason i use that as a measure is
53:51because if you're an out of town public
53:54coming here for services you're going to
53:56graduation
53:57right if you if you're a local and you
54:00live here you may or may not
54:02but
54:03it at least gives you a measure like if
54:06they're not filling up
54:08the problem with talking about whether
54:10the flag auditorium gets filled up is
54:12you can always fill it up with seared
54:14members i i can i could tell you who was
54:16i was there for 11 months i i could tell
54:18you who was
54:19staff and who was
54:21a sea organ who was public and the
54:23public the public who
54:26because i saw all of these people i'm a
54:28face i'm a faceless person i you know a
54:30pretty good memory uh for
54:32certain things especially for faces
54:34people had their had their spots and
54:36they organized it how they did but i'd
54:37say
54:38you would only really get public in the
54:40first
54:41seven or so rows of the center aisle
54:44because either other side i guess or the
54:47other the other aisle could have been of
54:48ao public but it doesn't even fill that
54:51much anymore uh anymore because
54:54it's so not even not even 500 public
54:57yeah like no not even remote like
55:00like there
55:01and sometimes because it was every
55:03friday uh
55:05sometimes people just didn't come on a
55:07slow
55:08friday we we went because we were
55:10supposed to when we were obligated to if
55:12we did finish something go up on stage
55:14and raise it and smile and we were like
55:16if you wanted to go up uh you had to
55:18sign it and then they had to drill you
55:20um if you completed something they would
55:22write your script
55:23for what you said you would write
55:25something and they would just like take
55:27it and write something else and then you
55:28would say that obviously giving the
55:30whole spiel thanking lrh thanking cob i
55:32remember um
55:34when i asked my brother
55:36or another another another thing uh that
55:38that kind of tipped me off the edge was
55:40uh my um after i decided to leave but
55:43um i was still working for my dad my uh
55:45a friend of mine dylan who i was on the
55:49uh larry mini podcast with
55:52um
55:53was you know he's a rowdy boy i knew he
55:55was causing trouble no matter what
55:57but uh he i heard that he was getting
56:00declared i talked to him about it and i
56:01was like
56:03what happened and he told me and i was
56:05like okay well that doesn't sound like
56:06he should be declared
56:07and
56:09my brother
56:12told me about it and then when he didn't
56:14get my confirmation
56:16that i had blocked him
56:19um a few weeks later
56:21he went to flag to do some to start his
56:24ellage for seven
56:26ot7 that is
56:28so like doing all the sec checking and
56:29the fpd that's needed and like the
56:31courses or whatever for
56:33doing that he texted me and i had never
56:36in my life
56:37seen my brother my older brother so
56:40like
56:41scared and like desperately
56:44hoping that i would say the right things
56:46and that i wouldn't like
56:48like like betray him in this way of like
56:51i don't want you to seem i don't want it
56:52to seem like i'm you know like this but
56:54like you know how it goes and you know
56:56they're not gonna let me on
56:58uh ot7 you know if you don't disconnect
57:00from him and it's it's gonna be you know
57:03the i'd never seen him like this it was
57:05just like like breaking down and i was
57:08like
57:11okay obviously i'm not going to do that
57:12but
57:13let me pretend that i do and i and i uh
57:16i told him that i did and
57:18he's like oh thank you thank you this is
57:20like this like means the world to me and
57:21so we went uh and uh
57:26and then
57:27about a month later i think is when i uh
57:30came out with a tick tock but it's just
57:31all these all all the different things
57:33that happened to you as a scientologist
57:35all the all the signs that you get
57:37you'll remember them
57:38all those little all those little points
57:40of uh
57:41you know
57:42being told uh when i was a child that um
57:47um
57:48you know i was
57:50broken by my mother and that she needed
57:52to send me to the org to fix me you know
57:55for her it was probably another tuesday
57:57but
57:59these are things that like gradually
58:00lead led to my my leaving and and
58:03obviously
58:06the explanation is always the longest
58:07part so
58:09uh the last video i made is it was more
58:11of like what happened but not like why
58:13it's good to be able to describe the
58:14context you know um
58:17i did i recorded earlier today a
58:19reaction video to michaela arrington
58:21stuff that she posted on tick tock
58:23yeah
58:24and
58:25you know one of the things i reacted to
58:27is she mentioned in her video that
58:28there's 11 000 scientology organizations
58:31and millions of scientologists
58:36yeah well in the video i go you know she
58:38actually believes that even though
58:41the evidence that it's not true
58:44is right in front of her face
58:46she can't see it because of the cult
58:49mindset
58:50and i'm mentioning that because the
58:52numbers that you just mentioned for flag
58:54you know the last time i was at flag was
58:55probably 2010 or 11
58:58um
59:00very latest 2012.
59:03i was on course in the coachmen
59:06i was also training at flag the late
59:08last time i as a staff member in 1998
59:10was the last time i was spending
59:12even though scientology keeps buying
59:14more property and buying more property
59:15and buying more property flag has not
59:17expanded over the last 20 years
59:20they they've been buying buildings we
59:22know like i've been hearing about all
59:23the buildings that are being bought like
59:24the like the oh yeah the chase
59:26the suntrust building
59:28they bought that yeah
59:30uh did did [ __ ] all with it
59:32no plans
59:34they've been evicting they've been
59:35evicting yeah slowly evicting the
59:37non-scientologist uh tenants there but
59:39like the number they legally had to give
59:41them like two years to
59:44uh they had to give all the people
59:45legally they had to give them two years
59:47to vacate before they did anything with
59:48the property like because but they're
59:51still but they're still renewing leases
59:52for scientologists they're not renewing
59:54leases for non-scientology yeah exactly
59:57yeah yeah well no they haven't done
59:59anything with it i think it's i don't
01:00:00think it's like an apartment building i
01:00:01think it's like a business they said
01:00:02they were going to do something admin
01:00:04with it but then that's like what they
01:00:05say about every [ __ ] random building
01:00:07what they what they've done with it was
01:00:08they they kept it what it already was
01:00:10which is a commercial office
01:00:12so but they keep renewing the leases for
01:00:14scientologist-owned companies but not
01:00:16being doing the leases for
01:00:17non-scientologists oh there are people
01:00:19like still in business in there
01:00:21oh yeah
01:00:23oh wow i know i know before i mean no no
01:00:26before and stu showerman have two or
01:00:29three floors of the building
01:00:31but they have their own building also
01:00:33yeah but they've outgrown it and they
01:00:35they've moved over to the side
01:00:37it's so funny
01:00:39yeah
01:00:39but the number of public who are on
01:00:41corset flag the number of seared members
01:00:44who are staff members at the base
01:00:46um has not expanded over the last 20
01:00:49years and i mentioned that as an example
01:00:51of
01:00:52one of the role that flag plays is it's
01:00:54the one place where miscavige can
01:00:56continue to create this mirage that
01:00:59scientology is expanding and yet even at
01:01:02flag the only thing that's expanded is
01:01:04the building there's not more
01:01:05scientologists yeah no not at
01:01:08all the
01:01:09what what you have to understand is like
01:01:13pageantry does impress
01:01:15especially when it comes to
01:01:18architecture so
01:01:20what they did was
01:01:23they made this really
01:01:25honestly very beautiful building
01:01:28i mean like when you now i look at it
01:01:30it's kind of
01:01:31it's not so beautiful now but
01:01:33at the time you know you walk in and
01:01:35you're like holy [ __ ] everything's clean
01:01:36there's always like a foreign person who
01:01:38doesn't speak english on
01:01:40scrubbing the tiles they always put the
01:01:43uh
01:01:44uh i noticed the least uh
01:01:47conversationally active uh on the
01:01:50janitorial work
01:01:52uh all the people that they that that
01:01:55are like join the sea org in moscow or
01:01:57something and they're like uh go i hope
01:02:00and they say oh you're going to flag to
01:02:02scrub [ __ ] out of the out of the
01:02:04toilets for the next
01:02:06[ __ ] 40 years and
01:02:08but but we'll pay for your bridge when
01:02:09we let you get it at some point later
01:02:12like you look at this place you're like
01:02:15shit's you know and people are like
01:02:16moving around and everyone's like when
01:02:17you're in that mindset it's it's it's it
01:02:20tricks you it's just another part layer
01:02:21of the illusion that kind of brings you
01:02:23in and
01:02:24and uh
01:02:25the way they structure the course rooms
01:02:28and the schedules uh makes it look like
01:02:30and the corridors
01:02:33long
01:02:34narrow corridors
01:02:36that
01:02:37uh
01:02:38you know
01:02:39really fit only two rows of people so
01:02:42when
01:02:4313 course rooms get out for break yeah
01:02:46it looks like there's a shitload of
01:02:47people but it's not really as big
01:02:49it it's not as big to justify an
01:02:52increase of number it's like the logic
01:02:54there doesn't make sense we're actually
01:02:55losing pcs in the internship constantly
01:02:58at the end uh it was impossible to find
01:03:00anyone who would stay or who wanted
01:03:01internship auditing
01:03:02uh impossible for
01:03:04any uh
01:03:06auditors to not only be trained because
01:03:08they kept [ __ ] up
01:03:10um but uh
01:03:13like
01:03:14they didn't have pcs
01:03:16to audit so they would just give you a
01:03:18superpower auditor or give you somebody
01:03:20who hasn't done that
01:03:22thing in the c org a new c org number
01:03:25and uh you would audit them and finish
01:03:27your requirements for the internship uh
01:03:29and assists also count in your hour
01:03:31quota which
01:03:33uh i saw a guy who did like
01:03:36like 115 hours of of nervousness
01:03:39and
01:03:41that was that was really funny he's like
01:03:43i did that i
01:03:45we did a two-hour nervousness she never
01:03:47told me she was okay i just kept telling
01:03:49her to flip she never gave me a
01:03:50cognition so i just kept going for two
01:03:52hours
01:03:53and she didn't offended exams because we
01:03:55had been doing a two-hour uh assist and
01:03:58then i got she got red tagged so we had
01:04:00to do it again
01:04:01at the end of the day and it was like
01:04:04you know and those like moments you
01:04:06you're like wrapped up in like this you
01:04:08know camaraderie of the of the topic but
01:04:10it's
01:04:11you know
01:04:13that's the problem it's like
01:04:15you're distracted from this real like
01:04:18lack of accountability and harmful
01:04:20actions towards
01:04:23like i was told when i was a kid that my
01:04:26best friend the only friend who i had
01:04:28down the street who happened to be gay
01:04:31he was aberrated he was like a bad guy
01:04:33and although i could hang out with him
01:04:35this is what you should think about him
01:04:37and i i apologize to him years later
01:04:40when i had all these realizations
01:04:41because it's like
01:04:42i just did that to him without thinking
01:04:45about it you know and without taking
01:04:46that into consideration because
01:04:48of scientology
01:04:50it is not harmless you know and that is
01:04:52kind of my whole point is like there are
01:04:54layers to it but it's a real problem
01:04:56it's hilarious sometimes
01:04:59uh because they are a very goofy and
01:05:01energetic bunch
01:05:02um but it's very [ __ ]
01:05:07yeah but yeah it's it's dying down a lot
01:05:09uh people i knew in atlanta are leaving
01:05:12um
01:05:13uh
01:05:15you know staff members we're leaving
01:05:17we're we're leaving atlanta
01:05:19we were at like uh like 15 staff when i
01:05:22left atlanta
01:05:24um
01:05:26because people just stopped showing up
01:05:27and people were like arguing with the
01:05:29org because the org wasn't paying them
01:05:31so they would just declare them instead
01:05:32and send them packing
01:05:35you know so to your point on that on
01:05:37that little last bit there there is a
01:05:39lot of people leaving
01:05:41definitely
01:05:42well
01:05:43also with you know you being public and
01:05:46other people come out and being public
01:05:47and even people
01:05:49secretly being public
01:05:52yeah that's uh that's fun
01:05:55more and more people i mean it's
01:05:56inevitable the demise of the membership
01:05:59of scientology
01:06:00is inevitable you know whether the
01:06:03organization will ever be forced to
01:06:05divest of assets is probably
01:06:08dependent on whether they lose the tax
01:06:10exempt status which is something that i
01:06:12believe will eventually occur i do yeah
01:06:15but you know it's fine it'll it'll take
01:06:17care of itself in in due time
01:06:20in the meantime we can help speed up the
01:06:21process
01:06:23yeah exactly like i i you never realize
01:06:26how
01:06:27yeah i just never realized how fragile
01:06:29scientology was until i started talking
01:06:31about it and until i started hearing
01:06:32from scientologists reactions and it's
01:06:34like
01:06:35well more can be said uh i think
01:06:38you know the question is like why why
01:06:40take my family down it was another
01:06:42question that i get from my
01:06:44tick tocks like people i guess with good
01:06:45family relationships have a
01:06:47are curious as to why i would i wouldn't
01:06:49just
01:06:50forgive my family
01:06:52but uh it's not even about that
01:06:55it's uh
01:06:56it's it's a very simple
01:06:58fact that right now my family is
01:07:01you know supporting a very
01:07:03uh dangerous group and they are being
01:07:06they're victims of it but
01:07:08i mean mainly my
01:07:10mother and father are i guess the two
01:07:12in my family who are sort of propagating
01:07:14and funding
01:07:15this um scientology lifestyle but you
01:07:18know my brother and sister
01:07:20it's hard to know where they'll end up
01:07:22or how what kind of people they're gonna
01:07:23be
01:07:24um if they stay in especially because i
01:07:27have a niece who is
01:07:29you know
01:07:31barely even going to school
01:07:33and apparently there's another one on
01:07:34the way
01:07:35so uh
01:07:36you know it's thinking about the future
01:07:38thinking about my future family that's
01:07:39going to be in
01:07:40scientology all right well let me know
01:07:42when you want to do it again and we
01:07:44certainly will thanks everybody for
01:07:46watching
01:07:47have a good night
01:08:07you
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FAQs about This YouTube Video

1. What does Ian Rafalko talk about in the Youtube video?

Ian Rafalko talks about leaving Scientology, the neglect he experienced from his parents, and exposing his father's alleged pretense of Christianity and support of the organization.

2. What revelations does Ian make about Scientology in the video?

Ian reveals the untruths and cover-ups within Scientology, including the inflated numbers of members and discriminatory leasing practices.

3. How does Ian Rafalko's experience relate to the broader conversation about Scientology?

Ian Rafalko's experience sheds light on the negative effects of Scientology, the neglect it can cause, and the untruths propagated by the organization.

4. Why is Ian Rafalko's story important to be shared?

Ian Rafalko's story is important to be shared to bring awareness to the harmful practices of Scientology and to encourage others to speak out against such organizations.

5. What can viewers learn from Ian Rafalko's experience?

Viewers can learn about the reality of Scientology, the impact of neglect on individuals, and the importance of uncovering the truth about religious organizations.

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