💫 Summary
The video explores the disturbing case of Daniel Marsh, who went from being a hero to a psychopathic killer, committing gruesome crimes and showing no remorse. Despite being diagnosed as a psychopath, the true extent of his depravity and the reasons behind his actions remain a mystery.
✨ Highlights📊 Transcript
Daniel Marsh, a former hero who saved his father's life, turned into a psychopath and committed a gruesome crime at the age of 15.
Daniel had violent thoughts and desires towards hurting and killing people.
Despite having a troubled childhood, no one suspected the dark intentions harbored within him.
Daniel scored high on the psychopathy scale, but it still doesn't explain the sheer depravity of his actions.
Daniel was interviewed alone despite being a minor, with his mother waiting elsewhere in the facility.
Daniel may have difficulty coping with intense emotions or be hypersensitive to them, which could explain his fascination with dark and disturbing content.
Daniel finds laughter in sad or dark situations as a way to cope with negative emotions.
He is fascinated by gore and anatomy, finding it shocking and intriguing.
The FBI agent is interested in understanding Daniel's feelings and how they relate to the crime.
Daniel Marsh's body language and denial during the interrogation indicate high anxiety and a possible connection to the crime.
Daniel's body language gives him away, with a subtle head nod and increased blinking when violence is mentioned.
Increased blinking can be a sign of high anxiety or fight or flight response.
Daniel interrupts the FBI agent when discussing the crime, possibly seeking approval for a job well done.
Daniel's weak denial and lack of extreme upset suggest he may not be innocent.
During the interrogation, Daniel asks if he can go home and tries to come up with reasons not to leave his shoes or phone behind.
Daniel asks if he can go home after being in the interrogation room for 3 and a half hours.
Daniel tries to come up with reasons not to leave his shoes or phone behind.
Investigators share a recording of a phone call where Daniel talks about the double homicide.
The narrator recalls a disturbing encounter with Daniel Marsh who had a knife in his pocket and made her feel threatened.
The narrator tried to play it cool and not show fear.
She texted Daniel's friend to scare him, but he called the cops.
Daniel later tries to convince the police of his innocence by lying and omitting details.
Chip and Claudia were described as hardworking, loving individuals by their family members.
Chip was a World War II veteran and later became a lawyer.
Claudia was a political activist during the 1960s and was known for her kindness and support.
Sarah, Claudia's granddaughter, admired her grandmother for her kindness and support for everyone individually.
Chip's stepdaughter, Merida, described him as a strong, honest, and rule-following personality who was a great husband.
Daniel Marsh shows apathy and low energy as he casually describes the murders, and lacks empathy for the victims.
Daniel seemed to enjoy the act of stabbing, but shows no enjoyment in retelling the murders.
He speaks with apathy and low energy, lacking any emotional response to the memories.
Despite the victims' pleas and screams, Daniel is void of empathy and shows no remorse for his actions.
He casually eats and drinks while describing the lurid details of the murders, demonstrating a lack of empathy for the victims.
Daniel Marsh reveals his thoughts about killing people and describes various violent ways he would kill someone, stating that these thoughts are involuntary and uncontrollable.
Daniel admits to having thoughts about killing people and describes different methods of killing.
He explains that these thoughts are involuntary and compare them to breathing.
After the FBI agent steps out, a different side of Daniel emerges during the interrogation.
Daniel goes on trial for the murders and the victims' family members find some solace in knowing that the couple died together.
00:01time I look at someone I see flashes of
00:05images of me killing them and numerous
00:08ways and numerous horrible ways doing
00:13things I can't help it it's just what
00:15comes into my head when I see them I
00:18want to hurt people I want to kill
00:20people but I don't want to want that so
00:24how would you kill me choking you to
00:26death with your tie beating your face
00:28into the mirror until it broke it's
00:29masing your face into the
00:31wall nothing personal when he was just
00:3412 years old Daniel Marsh was publicly
00:37recognized for saving his father's life
00:39after he suffered a medical emergency
00:41while driving but just a few years later
00:44Daniel had morphed into someone who no
00:46longer bore the slightest resemblance to
00:48that young hero while he had a troubled
00:51childhood and faced teenage struggles no
00:54one caught a hint of the Dark Intent
00:56harbored within that is until it was too
00:59late late Daniel would ultimately score
01:02higher than dmer and gasy on the
01:04psychopathy scale but even that might
01:07not explain the sheer depravity of his
01:10actions I felt scream bone a few times
01:13bleeding everywhere it was like Garling
01:15and stuff years later police and
01:18professionals alike are still trying to
01:20understand exactly what went so wrong to
01:22drive a 15-year-old to commit a crime so
01:25gruesome and disturbingly well executed
01:28that he Almost Got Away With It
01:30perhaps even more shocking is the
01:32prospect that in less than two decades
01:35he may freely roam the streets once
01:38again the majority of the following
01:40interview footage has never been
01:42released to the public and our exclusive
01:44interviews with the victim's family in
01:46correspondence with the killer has never
01:48been seen before it's been analyzed by a
01:51qualified team including a licensed
01:54professional counselor a licensed
01:56attorney and a former detective former
01:58licensed polygraph examiner and former
02:01hostage negotiation commander and
02:03instructor okay uh get your name Dan
02:06Marsh is that full name oh Daniel
02:09William Marsh okay even though Daniel is
02:12a minor he's being interviewed alone
02:15it's mentioned later in the interview
02:16that his mother is waiting elsewhere in
02:18the facility so the police potentially
02:21have her consent to conduct a solo
02:23interview in California a child May wave
02:26Miranda rights thus enabling a legal
02:30but two conditions must be met the
02:33waiver must be voluntary and the child
02:35age 17 or under must have actually
02:38consulted with an attorney parental
02:40consent is not required and there's no
02:43statutory or other basis on which a
02:45parent can wave those rights for the
02:47minor in addition parents do not have a
02:49statutory or constitutional right to be
02:51present during questioning of their
02:54child can you tell me where you
03:00I should have been at my house with my
03:02mom on the weekends I usually just stay
03:05there what were you doing probably
03:07playing video games or playing
03:09guitar usually what I do on my weekends
03:12is either I have somebody over I just
03:14hang out and play video games or play
03:16music you know what you doing that
03:18specific weekend not exactly but I don't
03:21really go places other than my friend
03:24house so I
03:26know I don't think we hung out that
03:28weekend I'm pretty sure I was at my
03:32house and if I wasn't at my house then I
03:34at the interview has barely started but
03:37Daniel's behavior is likely already
03:39raising some red flags with the police
03:42answers like I should have been at my
03:44house not exactly probably playing video
03:47games are selective memory statements
03:49which could be a sign that he's trying
03:51to keep his story as vague as possible
03:54why he might be acting this way isn't
03:56yet clear but his body language supports
03:59the theory that he has something to hide
04:01he's sitting very still which could
04:04signal that he's thinking really hard
04:05about his story at the expense of moving
04:08and communicating naturally as a result
04:11police likely feel that they're getting
04:12close to solving the Dreadful crime
04:14they're investigating so you do know
04:17about the M over
04:20investigating I mean Davis when
04:23something like that happens here it's
04:24like holy crap everybody knows about it
04:27about it tell me what you know about it
04:29I think they were like an elderly couple
04:32or something I know that somebody broke
04:34in and like stabbed these two people but
04:37I don't really know anything
04:39else breaking and
04:41entering do you know which uh apartment
04:44that did that well not the actual one no
04:49but I know it was like near my dad's I
04:52we drove by it a couple times and we saw
04:54like the police tape and everything when
04:56was the last time you were
04:57there in the area
05:07like a week after it happened or
05:10something like that it soon enough to
05:12where there was still the tape up and
05:14everything and there were like all the
05:15cop cars were there sustained eye
05:18contact like Daniel demonstrates here is
05:20a big red flag for deception Daniel
05:23could be searching for any signs of
05:24Doubt on the investigator's face
05:27possibly prepared to change his story at
05:29the first hint of disbelief he's also
05:31still using a lot of qualifying
05:34statements but I don't really know
05:36anything else I know we J by it most
05:39people struggle with physiological
05:41responses to lying and using avoidance
05:43techniques to sidestep an outright lie
05:45can help minimize that discomfort
05:48repetition which Daniel is defaulting to
05:51can also make a person feel like they
05:53are solidifying their story I'm just
05:55also trying to clear up some things
05:57maybe some rumors and maybe some
06:00uh regards to you and the murder
06:03investigation that we're doing and the
06:05murders that happened on
06:07cow anything you tell me I haven't heard
06:10any of these rumors but you
06:14like I haven't heard anything about it I
06:17haven't heard anyone say anything about
06:18me in regards to it like honestly
06:23I I
06:24haven't heard anything about me in
06:27regards to that I don't know why it
06:30would be there why people would anyone
06:32would spread a rumor notice how Daniel's
06:35hands start to Twitch and how his speech
06:37stumbles like honestly I I haven't heard
06:41anything about me he can't even get
06:44through the statement at first what if
06:46it becomes more than a rumor or if you
06:48had more information that you may have
06:51something to do with
06:52it but I don't how can you prove to me
06:56that you you
06:57don't pretty sure if you ask my mom
06:59she'll say I was
07:00there I don't know
07:04I how would anyone else prove that I
07:08mean I know if you're looking for an
07:10alibi that that would be
07:12in this is not reassuring because it's
07:15likely that his own mom is the one
07:17person who would lie and say he was
07:18there rather than having been somewhere
07:21else it seems Daniel may be thinking
07:23only along the lines of they have no way
07:26of proving I wasn't home when he
07:28mentions an by this indicates that he's
07:31basically labeling himself a
07:34suspect I had nothing to do with
07:37it I
07:38was just a lazy
07:44weekend here the investigator does a
07:46good job of the silent standoff most
07:49people are uncomfortable with silence
07:51when sitting with someone so they'll try
07:53to fill the silence the officer is
07:56trying to see if Daniel will start
07:58nervous rambling again again he doesn't
08:01but he does reach over and grab his
08:02water and start drinking to break the
08:04anxiety of the
08:06moment even though he's still sticking
08:08to a story the interview techniques are
08:10clearly having some kind of effect on
08:12him it begs the question if he's truly
08:15as uninvolved as he claims why is he
08:18getting nervous it's at this moment that
08:21a new investigator joins the
08:22conversation and the energy in the room
08:25has a marked shift hey how you see
08:30hi hi you must be Daniel yeah I'm Chris
08:33C nice to meet you nice to meet you I'm
08:35uh from the
08:37FBI work around here I do kind of some
08:40of the the criminal profiling stuff and
08:43been working with Ariel on this case
08:45since it happened so sorry I'm a little
08:48late but uh all right you guys have been
08:50talking Eddie told me you guys have been
08:52talking a little bit and yeah sounds
08:55like this young man has quite a history
08:58kind of a family a train wreck if I can
09:02be so bold to say
09:03that pretty much the FBI agent describes
09:07Daniel's history rather harshly but not
09:10inaccurately so 9 years old when you me
09:13bro you you you parents split like
09:16parents split mom disappeared for a few
09:19months left with Dad who was well he has
09:22a temper problem and you know just lost
09:25his wife so he's going to be pissed off
09:26and that wasn't really fun since then
09:30every year it seems like you know
09:32there's a new like bad thing to happen
09:34or a new cocf to be added into the pile
09:37as Daniel opens up to the officer he
09:39includes more details about his
09:41struggles such as how unhappy he felt
09:43living with just his father and the pain
09:46of his mother's absence it was really
09:48selfish honestly cuz like she left with
09:52this she left with a chick like and I
09:56don't know what happened with that but
09:58she was was involved in my life for a
10:00few years the woman Daniel's mother
10:03started a relationship with was none
10:05other than Daniel's former kindergarten
10:08teacher and that pissed me off cuz it's
10:10like really you care about your own
10:13happiness more than your children's
10:15that's it's not
10:17right the way I say that when you're a
10:19parent it's kind of you made it your
10:23duty to nurture your kids and take care
10:25of them and make sure that they're okay
10:27it appears that the office attempts to
10:29build rapport are working as Daniel
10:32begins to share his opinions and
10:33feelings as the interview continues
10:36what's your Rel like with your dad uh
10:39not good he never hit me or my sister
10:43but he'd hit like the walls or he hit
10:47like you know inanimate objects he yell
10:51and uh it's that kind of kind of
10:58just pissed off DED only notice how
11:02still Daniel is sitting without shifting
11:04in a seat or shuffling around
11:05uncomfortably there are several ways to
11:08interpret this the most simple being
11:10that Daniel is experiencing cognitive
11:12overload it's possible that he's
11:14focusing so hard on keeping his story
11:16straight and controlling the interview
11:18that his natural non-verbal
11:20communication has
11:21ceased however this could also indicate
11:24that every movement he does make is very
11:26intentional almost choreographic
11:29in order to have the effect he wants
11:32based on later Revelations about Daniel
11:34it seems that this is a strong
11:36possibility what was your relationship
11:38with you have a sister yeah is she older
11:41or younger she's older she's 17 she was
11:44a really uh attention seeking habitual
11:47liar a manipulator of my parents and you
11:50know when you're a little kid and you
11:53see that she's manipulating them and you
11:54try to tell them they don't believe you
11:57cuz you're just a kid you don't don't
11:59know what's going on supposedly yeah if
12:02what he's saying about his parents and
12:04sister is true Daniel is quite observant
12:07for being so young it seems as if he has
12:09everyone figured out in addition to the
12:12interpersonal conflict Daniel reports
12:14within the family both of his parents
12:16allegedly had extensive medical history
12:19in fact at age 12 Daniel was publicly
12:22recognized for saving his father's life
12:24after he passed out while driving as it
12:27so happened Bill Marsh had suffered
12:29heart attack Daniel was able to stop the
12:31car safely and pound it on his father's
12:33chest until his heart started beating
12:36again after digging into Daniel's family
12:38history the FBI agent makes an extended
12:41effort to connect with Daniel on a
12:43personal level and build raor in
12:46addition to discussing Daniel's past
12:48they chat about his interest in martial
12:50arts video games and music there's a
12:53method to the madness as the detectives
12:55lay the groundwork in an effort to get
12:57to the heart of one of the most most
12:59heinous crimes we've covered so far
13:01while it may not seem pertinent to the
13:03crime Rapport building is a very
13:05important part of the interview process
13:07it allows the interviewee to feel more
13:09at ease and more like they can talk to
13:11the interviewer this makes it more
13:14likely that the truth will come out
13:16rather than if no Rapport building had
13:18taken place alternately you can think of
13:20it like bonding or having a conversation
13:23along the lines of you would tell your
13:25friend something you wouldn't tell a
13:27stranger these are all good
13:28interrogation tactics
13:31um what exactly are you guys trying
13:36to get from me well here's here's where
13:39kind of concerns are and um people who
13:43are much more techsavvy than me cuz I'm
13:45just an old guy I don't know anything
13:47about anything found this thing called
13:49Tumblr and your Tumblr page is that the
13:52right term yeah yeah tell me about that
13:55how did that come to be Tumblr mhm um I
14:00heard about it I made
14:03one okay so describe to me the stuff
14:06that's on there on my page or on Tumblr
14:09in General on your on your page yeah um
14:12song lyrics
14:15uh things like just miniature things
14:18about like what I feel a lot of stuff
14:20from horror movies cuz I like horror
14:22movies um Gore pretty much it just music
14:27and scary stuff these admissions that he
14:31enjoys horror movies and Gore don't
14:33really make Daniel look good in addition
14:36his qualifying statement pretty much it
14:38likely makes the investigator wonder
14:40what it is he's leaving
14:42out horror movies and Gore yeah seems
14:45like there's a lot of that on there
14:48well since I was a little kid I liked
14:50hores I've been watching them like for a
14:52long time I'm wondering if it's a refuge
14:55for you D in a way kind of is
14:59um I've got a dark screwed up sense of
15:03humor and actually a lot of that stuff
15:06makes me
15:08laugh that doesn't sound suspicious at
15:10all coming from a prime suspect however
15:13it's important to keep in mind that just
15:15because a teen dresses in all black and
15:17likes horror movies and Gore doesn't
15:19mean that they'll go on to harm others
15:21or act out what they see in horror
15:23movies while laughing at seeing dark or
15:26scary things could make a person appear
15:28like they laugh empathy or that they're
15:30so tough that they cackle at horrible
15:32things like a villain in a movie the
15:34reality is they may be unknowingly
15:36trying to cope with intense emotions or
15:39situations this occurs due to a
15:41phenomenon known as emotional
15:44homeostasis this is similar to when the
15:46body sweats as a means of cooling off
15:49laughter in the face of something sad or
15:51dark could help the person cope with sad
15:53or negative emotions it's very possible
15:56that Daniel may not know how to cope
15:57with difficult emotions or he may be hyp
16:00sensitive to intense
16:02emotions see it
16:05and I don't know not a lot of stuff
16:07makes me laugh MH and so it's like I
16:10like horror movies and it's just it's
16:12the same thing as a horror movie only
16:13it's real and since I don't have any
16:16connection to whoever it happened to it
16:19doesn't really bother
16:21me right so and it's kind of like the
16:24cutting it's it's a feeling right yeah
16:27seriously like
16:29it makes me feel something
16:32and I've just always kind of been into
16:35darker stuff and what do you feel when
16:38you say it makes you feel something what
16:40is it that you're feeling when you see
16:41the the stuff on Tumblr the
16:47gore I don't know it makes me kind like
16:49shocked and I don't I'm fascinated with
16:54anatomy and so like I you can see
16:59what happened to them and how warped
17:02their bodies are and just it's kind of
17:05fascinating to think like what could
17:06have done that how did that
17:11um why did that happen
17:14just how did this all come to play
17:18and I don't know sometimes they'll be
17:21like in a funny pose or something they
17:24would just look like stupid and so like
17:29gigle at
17:30it and it makes you feel something you
17:33it gives you a feeling the FBI agent
17:35seems to be particularly interested in
17:37Daniel's feelings and how they are
17:39brought to the surface while it may seem
17:42like a tangent it'll become Central to
17:44the interrogation and the understanding
17:46of the crime what's the concern with
17:48that though it's Tumblr it is and and
17:51you know I know that there's all those
17:52websites out there like there's also a
17:55lot of stuff that's like it's relevant
17:58to what what going on today like there's
18:00a lot of it is just um stuff that's
18:03happening in Syria and it's like holy
18:07crap this is actually going on right now
18:10and no one's doing anything about it
18:11it's just kind of like a real life
18:13horror movie mhm I don't really make the
18:17distinction you know it's brutal and
18:19it's dark but it's interesting to
18:23me and you said Anatomy you said you had
18:25an interest in anatomy tell tell me more
18:27about that
18:28well just the human body it's
18:32it's I just find it fascinating to like
18:35see what what's on the inside you know
18:39like not just this cuz what makes it all
18:42happen what makes it work what is it
18:45right so that's that's part of the
18:47fascination with the gore stuff yeah
18:49note the posture shift here when the FBI
18:52agent asks about Anatomy Daniel blocks
18:55off with his leg creating a makeshift
18:57barrier like this can indicate anxiety
19:00and in this case reveals that Daniel is
19:03likely uncomfortable with this line of
19:05questioning so far there have been a lot
19:07of little tells during Daniel's
19:09conversation with police taken together
19:12they probably generated interest but
19:14what Daniel does next likely convinces
19:17police that he's guilty even though the
19:19specifics of what they suspected he'
19:21done had not yet been addressed so I am
19:26not sure how far you and Ariel talked
19:28about what kind of led us to you and to
19:32kind kind of look
19:33into Dan and everything about Daniel um
19:37he just said that like he heard like a
19:39rumor or something he didn't really tell
19:40me why
19:43me he just kind of ask me those
19:46stereotypical questions you know like
19:49where were you who were you with uh what
19:51do you
19:52know okay so the the the rumors that
19:56he's referring to are people's saying
19:59specific things about what you have told
20:07people what what would that be that that
20:10you were there that you
20:12did those
20:16murders me
20:25ridiculous why is it
20:27ridiculous a kid no that's well like I
20:32don't I don't hurt
20:35people like you can ask anyone around me
20:39I'm a compassionate affectionate person
20:42I care about people I don't when I hurt
20:45them I mean yeah they piss me off
20:47sometimes and they do some messed up but
20:51I care about people Daniel just
20:53demonstrated a slew of warning behaviors
20:56when facing an accusation he responds
20:59incredulously even smiling like it's too
21:01ridiculous to be true however police can
21:04almost certainly tell that this is a
21:06fake smile which doesn't reach his eyes
21:09he also seems to be demonstrating the
21:11freeze response while he hasn't been
21:13very mobile during the interview his
21:16movements have increased as the
21:17questions become more pointed before he
21:20made small motions with his hands and
21:22occasionally gestured when he spoke but
21:25it all stops here and he becomes
21:27perfectly still even more significant is
21:30the fact that Daniel doesn't actually
21:32deny anything nor does he exhibit shock
21:35or anger at being accused he simply
21:37brushes it off as absurd finally the
21:40fact that he feels the need to emphasize
21:42that he cares about people like you can
21:45ask anyone around me I'm I care about
21:48people I don't when I hurt them I care
21:51about people show his effort to portray
21:53the idea that he's so great he's
21:55incapable of doing something so terrible
21:58I see you as a person who has a need you
22:02have a big need you have
22:06a need for a refuge maybe more than
22:10anybody I've ever run across and at age
22:1216 just
22:1616 that's remarkable um it's important
22:20to note that Daniel was 15 when the
22:22crime took place but months passed
22:25before he was interrogated during which
22:27time he turned
22:2916 I don't know if that's a good thing
22:32probably not but it is an unusual thing
22:36see to meet a person like you Dan who is
22:40been through through some of the things
22:41you have and
22:44has this need the compulsion I think the
22:49the need to do something to
22:52feel well yeah
22:56but I don't HT people I don't and the
23:02the information that was said that came
23:05out of your mouth had specifics of of
23:09what happened in that house with those
23:10two elderly people that only the person
23:13who was inside that house would
23:16know very specific information the FBI
23:19agent could have launched into an
23:21explanation of the truly horrific
23:23aspects of the crime and how inhumanely
23:26the victims were treated but he holds
23:28back and instead tries to minimize the
23:31crime he likely hopes that by portraying
23:34the crime as compulsion or a symptom of
23:36a psychological disturbance rather than
23:38an indicator of morality it'll encourage
23:41Daniel to open up and tell the truth
23:47what I said that someone broke in and
23:50stabbed the
23:51people yeah no what what we're picking
23:54up on that you said to other people who
23:58may have repeated to other
24:00people is information that is so
24:03specific not just that somebody broke in
24:06and stabb two people but exactly what
24:11was done to these people well have you
24:14asked the people who have told you that
24:17where they were well I mean when someone
24:20comes to you and tells you exact details
24:22of a murder then says no this guy did it
24:26isn't that kind of
24:28like like we should think about that
24:30that maybe he was there or she was there
24:33or you know whoever was telling us
24:34trying to screw me over I mean my friend
24:39is really my life right
24:47now okay um I don't know it seems like
24:51he has a vendetta out for me or
24:55he's what's that based on I don't know
24:59do you mean what's his reason or what's
25:01my reason to say that why why do you
25:04think he has a vendetta against you well
25:08like he knew I carried a knife and he
25:12had never had a problem with it until
25:14one day he randomly reported me to the
25:16office and started all of this you know
25:20got me arrested put in the system for a
25:25misdemeanor got a got me most likely
25:29expelled from the high school and I
25:31asked him why and he said I don't like
25:33you and I don't want you
25:35here he's killed animals
25:38before um seen him choke a cat to death
25:43yeah yeah people have told us that
25:46that's the kind of stuff that you do too
25:50don't you've never heard of an animal
25:54intentionally I've gotten mad and I've
25:56like I've hit my dog
25:58right it's interesting how Daniel says
26:01not intentionally but then says he hurt
26:03his dog when he got mad this indicates
26:06that Daniel May believe that doing
26:08something when you're angry isn't
26:09considered intentional or that he gets
26:11some sort of pass when he acts on an
26:13emotion like anger he may believe that
26:16his emotions are not his fault or that
26:18he isn't at all responsible for how he
26:20reacts when he reacts On
26:23Emotion like kicked your dog yeah choked
26:25your dog no not choked kicked it cuz
26:28it's you know it's annoying it ran into
26:30me it won't shut up you know just like
26:33but I don't intentionally harm animals
26:37so that if we talk to everybody that
26:39knows and everybody who's close to him
26:42everybody that's close to you Dan and
26:44everybody who would know people are
26:47going to say Dan doesn't do anything
26:50like that to animals but does I don't
26:53know if theyd say that he does because
26:55he me and him were like we were brothers
26:58you know we told each other everything
27:01he told me and I saw some of it what did
27:03you see I saw him joke a cat to death
27:05and I saw him beat the hell out of his
27:07dog and what eventually happened with
27:11captain let stop
27:15so and what did he do with it he threw
27:19it in the trash
27:20can here we see Daniel attempting to
27:23shift the focus away from himself by
27:25blaming someone else who will call John
27:28Doe for privacy reasons this is clever
27:31as it serves the dual purpose of
27:33portraying himself as innocent and
27:35discrediting Jon as a witness however
27:38his slight smile and periodic Chuckles
27:40when he describes the cat's death are
27:42certainly telling likely recognizing
27:45that Daniel has been resistant to the
27:47interrogation techniques used so far the
27:49FBI agent tries a different approach
27:52drawing from the read
27:54technique if it did happen that was
27:57involv D in in killing these two um
28:00older people what should happen to
28:03him should go to the general you know in
28:07California you know I don't know how old
28:09he is is he a juvenile too he's 17 he's
28:1117 so you know juvenal Hall have you
28:14ever been
28:16oh this whole knife thing like on campus
28:19is the first any sort of negative
28:21interaction I've had with authority the
28:26law I mean
28:28I don't know um he used to take family
28:30trips to Mexico and he's told me stories
28:36like him and his cousins would do
28:39stupid in the read technique the
28:41question of punishment is often put
28:43forward as part of interrogation as it
28:45can help cement in the interrogator mind
28:48the suspect's guilt or innocence for
28:51example an innocent person will
28:53typically suggest a strong negative
28:55consequence where a guilty person will
28:57offer a less severe option as they're
28:59describing their own
29:01punishment however Dan manages to use
29:04the topic of jail and juvenile detention
29:06as an opportunity to highlight his own
29:08clean legal record by contrasting
29:11himself and John Dan makes himself out
29:13to be a good kid and more likely to be
29:16innocent thankfully the FBI agent
29:19doesn't seem to buy it
29:22well we have this this issue then we
29:25still have this problem yeah and it's a
29:28big problem
29:30because somebody
29:33knows a lot of information stuff that
29:36only somebody who was there is going to
29:40know and we look at that and we look at
29:42your tum word page and we look at
29:44everything that I understand about
29:47people in your position that I've met
29:51along the way in 25 years of doing
29:54this and people are saying
29:59Dan that's Dan and he did it and he
30:02here's here's
30:07why didn't do
30:10it if it killed anyone I want
30:17to like you said there's people that
30:19matter to you but the
30:22Curiosity the the graphic stuff the
30:26graphic nature of it the they're just
30:29the the attraction to
30:33that how could you not it's an obsession
30:36it would be an obsession it would be a
30:38compulsion I could never do that to
30:43someone for gotten in
30:45fights that was self-defense yeah no
30:48that's just something completely
30:51never Daniel's fingers are still
30:53twitching a bit but he's remarkably
30:55still this is a big red flag for
30:58deception as Stillness equates to
31:00cognitive overload and having to think
31:02hard about the right things to
31:07say I couldn't do that this is a this is
31:10a compulsion and like we were talking
31:12about before this is something where you
31:14can't help it it's an obsession you
31:16think about it all the time and after
31:18you're done with it you're going to feel
31:21a complete relief a release and and you
31:25know a feel you feel
31:28and you almost got away with it I mean
31:30that's the thing I mean the the the
31:32crime was a
31:35just technique but I didn't do
31:39it Daniel's denial is softspoken and
31:42respectful he's still focused on trying
31:45to be likable and calm however his body
31:48language gives him away he gives an
31:50almost imperceptible head nod when the
31:52FBI agent talks about how violence
31:54enables him to feel and the rate of
31:57which he blinks drastically increases
32:00and after you're done with it you're
32:01going to feel a complete relief a
32:04release and and you know a feel you
32:10feel this is another indicator of high
32:13anxiety or fight ORF flight mode both
32:16can cause dry eyes and the blink
32:18response is a way for the body to
32:19automatically compensate for that side
32:22effect it was a work of art d
32:28okay so somebody did a good job very
32:31close to getting away with
32:34it this is one of the first times during
32:37this extensive interrogation that Daniel
32:39interrupts the FBI agent it's almost as
32:42if he's motivated by the approval of a
32:44job well done while still actively
32:46working on not getting caught the agent
32:49continues to do an excellent job of
32:51boosting Daniel's ego this is reinforced
32:54by Daniel's weak denial some someone who
32:57is truly innocent would be extremely
32:59upset at this point except for maybe a
33:03betrayal someone that you trusted and
33:06that betrayal leads back
33:09to your your whole life I mean since you
33:12n years old just cuz I've got a messed
33:14up life and because I like scary movies
33:18and I like graphic
33:20content doesn't mean I'm a
33:23murderer I've got the thing that mean
33:26depression the thing that means that
33:27you're a murderer Dan is because only
33:29the person who was inside there would
33:33would know yeah but I didn't was done to
33:36the person afterward I'm not the one who
33:39told you guys that explicit information
33:42that you're telling me about other
33:43people said that you told
33:47them Daniel didn't say that he doesn't
33:49know the details but rather that he
33:51never told the agent the details an
33:54innocent person should be strongly
33:55denying accusation
33:57and would be saying something to the
33:59effect of I don't know any details
34:02Daniel is also speaking softly and has a
34:04nervous laugh these definitely aren't
34:07helping his case so there's two roads
34:10you know you can go down the road of
34:12saying wasn't me I could never do that
34:14and we're going to go and talk to
34:15everybody you know and we already
34:19are and they're telling us things you're
34:22talking about with the cat for
34:24example that wasn't that was you no it
34:28wasn't and people again who are older
34:30than you usually you're very young for
34:32this to have the onset of
34:36this to start at 8 or
34:399 it's extremely
34:42young what started at that age was my
34:44depression Daniel was indeed diagnosed
34:47with depression at a young age and had
34:49an extensive psychological history that
34:51he discussed with the officers earlier
34:53in the day um do you take any
34:56medications um I take anti-depressant
35:00anxiety and a little bit of a mood
35:03stabilizer what what are they uh
35:06Rin Zoloft and
35:09Abilify Abilify
35:11yeah is that mostly an anti
35:14psychotic yeah but they also added on
35:16the anti-depressants to help with stuff
35:18that comes along with depression helps
35:20with like you know little bit of mood
35:23swings uh helps with anxiety too just
35:27kind of calms you down this is an
35:29interesting combination of drugs well
35:31buttin prevents the re-uptake of
35:33dopamine and norepinephrine thus making
35:36more of those neurotransmitters
35:37available in the brain Zoloft increases
35:41the level of serotonin in the brain the
35:43combination is supposed to also help
35:45symptoms of ADHD and improve focus and
35:49Zoloft can help reduce impulsivity
35:51Abilify also works by regulating
35:54serotonin and dopamine this comp
35:56combination of meds indicates a
35:58longstanding probably medication
36:00resistant psychiatric struggle as this
36:03isn't the combination of meds a
36:05practitioner would likely prescribe
36:07right at the onset of symptoms Daniel
36:09has a flat AFF effect but it's unclear
36:11if this is just his personality or if
36:14perhaps it's due to all of the
36:15medications he just described it could
36:18be that he has a disorder that causes
36:20flat a effect but it's also possible
36:22that this is simply another sign of his
36:24deception and due to nitive overload so
36:28but you have you had any psychotic
36:31psychosis type indicators
36:35um a while back
36:40but that was just kind of a mental break
36:43what happened to um I snapped mentally
36:50and I was scared that I was going to
36:53hurt myself or that I might hurt
36:55somebody else I didn't feel safe
36:57and so I was put into a mental hospital
37:00in Sacramento for about a
37:03week but since then i' had no issues
37:07that I at the time I thought it was it
37:10was pointless
37:11and there's was no point in doing
37:14anything cuz you're just end up getting
37:15hurt you're going to die in the end
37:19there's I don't know I didn't see a
37:22point in
37:25living so
37:27your outlook on the world you said
37:28hasn't changed but that that point in
37:31living has that changed yeah
37:34um got to the point where I actually
37:37wake up in the morning and I want to be
37:38alive you know like I want to experience
37:41what life has you know I mean I'm 16
37:46I've just
37:47started despite Daniel's history none of
37:50what he's describing could begin to
37:51explain the degree of brutality required
37:54to commit the crime in question with
37:56this knowledge of Daniel's history of
37:58complex mental health struggles combined
38:00with his description of the vast array
38:01of medications he's been prescribed we
38:04pick back up where investigators broach
38:06the subject of Daniel's inability to
38:08feel and that that depression and that
38:11that self-loathing and that just life
38:14sucks it all goes
38:17together and you get to the point where
38:20you don't
38:21feel you don't feel I know you were in
38:25pain I know you were
38:30horrible and I think that this is a
38:33refuge like we talked about at the
38:35beginning this is a refuge of the only
38:37thing that you can do that makes you
38:41alive the FBI agent is talking about
38:43Daniel's attempts as an
38:45attention-seeking Behavior rather than
38:47an actual desire to die these drastic
38:51actions could be seen as a way to get
38:52pity and sympathy or to manipulate
38:55people the this is often a Hallmark of
38:57certain personality disorders or extreme
39:02manipulation Daniel also repeatedly
39:04positions himself as the victim which is
39:07another technique often used by
39:08narcissists and a potential red flag for
39:12officers we've been talking a long time
39:14today and one of the things over 25
39:17years I've gotten pretty good at is
39:18reading body language and you see the T
39:22things on the TV shows and all that kind
39:24stuff about poker play players uh you
39:27know of all things can read faces and
39:29tells you know what that is
39:33yeah you're not telling me the truth no
39:38damn as Daniel's about to see they've
39:41reached a turning point in the
39:42interrogation the agent is now ready for
39:45the real confrontation and from here
39:47everything is about to head in a
39:53direction wouldn't you be kind of
39:55freaked out out if you already have
39:57anxiety and social anxiety and you're
40:00brought in here and people are accusing
40:01you of killing people it has nothing to
40:03do with being freaked out has to be
40:05doing what I can see when you're telling
40:07the truth and when you're
40:09not and I know when you're telling the
40:14truth when you're not and you're not
40:15telling the truth now then yes I
40:19am I didn't kill
40:22anybody I've never killed anyone
40:27I don't want to kill anyone I don't want
40:29to hurt
40:32anyone the person who did this we will
40:35do it again I have no doubt about
40:40it they can't
40:42not it's the inside Obsession and it's
40:50compulsion well then maybe that's where
40:52you'll find your
40:54guy sir it's not not
40:57me okay so going forward would you agree
41:01that we've given you every opportunity
41:04explain what happened and why if in fact
41:08you were the one who did it yeah would
41:10that be fair to say yeah you've asked me
41:13to do that we've given you the
41:15opportunity yeah but I can't take
41:17advantage of an
41:21opportunity so you've had you've had the
41:23opportunity right if in fact you had
41:25done it that you could tell us and
41:27explain to us and do you get the feeling
41:30like I would understand to an extent to
41:35extent keep on saying that now what's to
41:39extent you can never completely
41:41understand another another
41:43person only they
41:46do even they don't sometimes right turn
41:52off I'm willing to
41:54try to understand as much as as I can
41:57and to make other people
41:59understand as much as they can what the
42:01real truth is okay
42:06okay we need to find whoever did
42:09it and ask them
42:12why so someone says spreads a rumor no
42:16it's not a
42:18rumor because it's got fact in it it's
42:22not making stuff up yeah but it's fact
42:26but it's not directly correlated to me
42:28someone gives you facts about a crime
42:30and then points their finger at
42:32me this is what happened he did it that
42:36doesn't mean that I did
42:43within this big circle of people I'm
42:46involved with this okay why don't you
42:48talk to detective P about what that big
42:51circle is and who's in that big circle
42:53okay as soon as the FBI agent exits
42:56leaving only the local police officer in
42:58the room Daniel exhales
43:01heavily like he's finally able to relax
43:04it appears that the agent's questioning
43:06was causing a significant amount of
43:09stress Daniel is left with the local
43:11police officer to discuss his Alibi
43:13further and to provide a list of
43:15contacts who might be able to
43:17corroborate his
43:18story when the FBI agent returns more
43:21than half an hour later he takes a
43:24drastically different approach
43:26um couple things the the evidence the
43:30investigation is going to progress okay
43:33so we have to do certain things and
43:34that's what detective pan is looking at
43:36here you know some things that we need
43:38to uh check for
43:40evidence um so um couple things we have
43:44a DNA swap kit here um like to take your
43:47DNA to check it against things that have
43:49been found at the
43:51criming pretty much standard CSI kind of
43:54stuff any problem with that
43:58okay the other thing is um and if you do
44:01don't mind um sitting down taking off um
44:08boots Daniel cooperates either because
44:11he's innocent or just very very sure of
44:13himself he allows the police to collect
44:16his boots and take Buckle swabs from his
44:18cheeks um how long do you have these
44:22boots eighth grade eighth grade your
44:25feet haven't grown
44:27no they got to D near size 10
44:33and okay anything um unusual about
44:40these I think so um you ever woring them
44:48um maybe I get a lot of nose
44:52leads so maybe they got on that
44:56okay but if that was to be the case it
44:58would be your
45:00blood left with no other option Daniel
45:03falls back on his default of
45:05non-committal and qualifying statements
45:08any other places you walk through like
45:11major bloody things
45:14like deers getting deer getting hit in
45:17the road and you walk through anything
45:19like that might have walked through like
45:27I after like years of having it I don't
45:30really think about what I've been
45:31walking on
45:33okay yeah it's definitely possible is
45:37there any reason that you would have
45:38ever put duct tape on the bottom of
45:40those boots T no no I put something in
45:45here that's cuz I was rubing against my
45:46ankle so some duct tape inside the the
45:50uppers Here Yeah by where the the green
45:53skeleton is how about this one no there
45:56was only that one that had the problem
45:58okay but never on the bottom no okay so
46:00there was no there would be no reason
46:02for there to be duct tape residue on the
46:04bottom of your boots no they shouldn't
46:06be have you ever lent your boots out to
46:08anybody no are they what you wear most
46:12every day yeah by having Daniel answer
46:15these seemingly mundane questions the
46:17FBI agent removes the possible excuse
46:20that someone else used his boots while
46:22committing the crime there were no
46:24useful footprints found at the scene
46:26just Impressions leading investigators
46:28to believe that the perpetrator had
46:30taped over the Treads of their shoes to
46:32avoid leaving evidence if they find tape
46:35residue on the soles of the shoes they
46:38will have proof that Daniel is
46:40lying the next piece of evidence to be
46:42examined is Daniel's phone that phone is
46:46is certainly as you know and a piece of
46:50of kind of almost cracking equipment if
46:53you will in today's day and age not cuz
46:55of anything the NSA or the FBI or
46:57anything like that's been in the news
46:59recently but just because that's what
47:01phun off whenever you walk around you
47:03hit different cell phone towers and it
47:05pretty much gives an imprint we can go
47:07back and locate where that phone was at
47:09a particular day at a particular time
47:12okay okay did you know
47:14that can I please go home I've been here
47:18all day and so we'd like to take your
47:20phone I kind of need that to you know
47:24communicate my mother and with my
47:28friends Daniel has been in the
47:30interrogation room for 3 and 1 half
47:31hours by now and this is the first time
47:34he's asked to go home it's really
47:37incredible that he still believes
47:38there's a chance he could be going home
47:40at this point it seems like Daniel is
47:43starting to realize that he may have
47:45made some mistakes as he tries to come
47:47up with reasons not to leave his shoes
47:49or phone
47:50behind well um as with your shoes d
47:56umbly take it as the judge his
48:00search how
48:02much supposed to call people or walk
48:05without my
48:09well I don't think you're going have to
48:13about investigators are about to share a
48:16huge piece of evidence that will likely
48:18further diminish Dan's hopes of leaving
48:20the police station anytime soon so
48:23there's a recording um that we have and
48:26uh a uh phone
48:29call I want you to hear it and listen to
48:34it went to
48:48yeah I like the PlayStation and like
48:52I've been talking to them a lot and yeah
48:56they kind of want to know a lot about
48:57Daniel and they want to know if you can
48:58talk about it
49:04yeah like everything yeah
49:08everything double homicide
49:13yeah well a detective like you want to
49:18get picked up really cool she's
49:20detective K and like she has like really
49:22cool hair and I've talked her a lot
49:26yeah um and like yeah you feel better I
49:30feel better about it you
49:33know oh wait they're going to pick me up
49:36yeah do you want to get picked up or
49:39like can
49:40you would that be okay I I don't know
49:45I like are you busy
49:49today like over at my house right now
49:53okay well
49:58me it' be really cool if you like do
50:00that the audio the police just played
50:02for Daniel was a recording of his
50:04ex-girlfriend and friend this likely
50:06drives home the reality that he's been
50:08betrayed and the police know what he's
50:12done police were first made aware of
50:14Daniel's involvement when a 911 operator
50:16got this phone call is there a way to
50:19just remain an hon or call leave
50:22whatever type of message you want to
50:23leave him I mean you don't choose to
50:25leave your phone number but the only the
50:28only hard thing is in case I guess they
50:31would have more questions I mean if you
50:34don't want to leave your real name
50:35that's fine you can make up a name or at
50:37least a contact number so they could at
50:39least just call you back if they had
50:40more questions I don't know if youd be
50:41willing to do that well I know
50:43everything and it's really scary
50:46actually because uh he kind of
50:49threatened me and all that um you have
50:53like the suspect information yes I have
50:55I know him I know every he told me
50:58everything that happened everything he
51:00did like all the little details perhaps
51:03sensing the urgency of the situation the
51:06operator put the tipster in contact with
51:08an officer right away who am I speaking
51:10with uh I want to remain anonymous is
51:13that okay okay uh what are you calling
51:15to report sir um the double homicide
51:18that happened in April this year what
51:21can you tell me about that um everything
51:24actually okay and how is it that you
51:27were able to uh have all this
51:29information about it the person told me
51:32everything so you know who did it yes
51:35okay let's start from the beginning what
51:37the anonymous informant claim Daniel had
51:39done was so specific and so horrifying
51:42that it was undoubtedly true you said he
51:45disclosed this to you a few nights after
51:48the actual death of these people is that
51:50correct okay why do you think he
51:52disclosed it to you first of
51:56I can't really answer that cuz that that
51:58will give me a away okay okay go ahead
51:59and just tell me everything that you you
52:01told me again I'm I'm a very close
52:03friend of his I know him better than
52:06anyone else okay he's a really good liar
52:09he's he has a lot of problems and he has
52:13a lot of problems actually okay where do
52:16his problems come from his problems come
52:18from family he's had he's always had a
52:20messed up life and I've always tried to
52:22be there for him but then after this I
52:25I couldn't because he's going to hurt
52:27more people and I can't just yeah I yeah
52:31I can't okay what's your concern what's
52:34your concern about uh remaining
52:36Anonymous uh the reason why I don't if
52:39he finds out it's me cuz he's if yeah if
52:42he finds out it's me he's going to he's
52:44going to try to after me or try to get
52:46his friends after me and I don't want to
52:48just don't want I don't want that to
52:50happen it's undeniable that the
52:52informant did the right thing in coming
52:54forward his bravery in the face of
52:56Daniel's threats is possibly what
52:58allowed the police to pursue the case at
53:00all without his intervention it's
53:03doubtful that they would have suspected
53:04a teenager to be the one responsible for
53:06a crime so heinous Daniel's
53:09ex-girlfriend was also involved in
53:11bringing Daniel to the police's
53:13attention for over 10 years she's
53:15remained silent in regards to her part
53:17in the investigation but we were lucky
53:20enough to secure an exclusive interview
53:23she was willing to tell us about her
53:24experience with Daniel and what
53:26eventually led her and Daniel's former
53:28friend to contact the police she wishes
53:31to note that she laughs when she gets
53:33nervous so any Giggles on her part are
53:36not an indication that she does not take
53:38seriously in fact it's the exact
53:41opposite even though a great deal of
53:43time has passed she reports that the
53:45case is still a constant presence in the
53:47back of her mind when I met Daniel I was
53:51in 10th Grade I don't remember exactly
53:54how old I was maybe 14 15 it feels like
53:57it was so long ago but when I met him he
54:01kind of he was part of my friend group
54:03and he just had the same sense of humor
54:06as me and we kind of just developed a
54:08friendship out of that uh that
54:10eventually formed obviously into a
54:13relationship he was very nice to
54:16everyone at face value um for sure if
54:19you didn't know him right off the bat he
54:20seemed very pleasant very charismatic
54:22he'd be quick to get in a conversation
54:25and talk jokes and music and all of that
54:28you I don't think you would ever be able
54:29to tell just by meeting him that the
54:31following events would have ever
54:33unfolded in fact she states that Daniel
54:35was so Adept at hiding his dark side
54:37that it did not begin to emerge until
54:39well into their relationship I was
54:42actually adamantly trying to end the
54:44relationship and he was essentially like
54:47coing me into not ending it until we
54:51made it to exactly a year so I wasn't
54:55able to leave the relationship when I
54:57wanted to I started noticing that things
55:00were off with him but it kind of just
55:02started off we were really young we were
55:05kids you know uh we were part of the
55:08edgy metal scene so we were all
55:11enveloped into dark humor and just
55:14pushing the limits for whatever and I
55:17noticed that he just kind of had this
55:19extra Darkness to him that progressively
55:22started coming out as we got further and
55:25further into the relationship I think
55:27the biggest red flag and you're Pro you
55:31know people are probably going to think
55:33I'm crazy for even staying with him
55:35after this again I was young and dumb he
55:38was very interested in watching real
55:42life videos of people dying and I was
55:47really uncomfortable with it a lot of
55:50the stuff that I saw actually still
55:52haunt me to this day but again young and
55:55um I just kept pushing that was like the
55:57biggest red flag and besides that he
56:00would just make jokes about you know
56:01killing people or the Coline Shooters
56:05and jokes about that very very very dark
56:07humor he would joke about just any sort
56:10of tragic event that that could have
56:12happened you know where people died he
56:13would joke about it it seems the Coline
56:16perpetrators and famous serial killers
56:18are often an obsession for people like
56:20Daniel similar to how some children who
56:23want to play professional football
56:25idolize NFL Stars especially if they're
56:28similar to them in some discernible way
56:31they serve as people to idolize that are
56:33like them these are good examples of
56:36Daniel's lack of empathy if he found
56:38entertainment in these sorts of videos
56:41perhaps these served as a type of
56:42training as he may have been working up
56:44the nerve to execute a murder himself I
56:47would say it it stayed pretty consistent
56:50up until he admitted to me that he
56:54committed the murder
56:55and that happened we were I we were
56:58walking the dog in a graveyard actually
57:01just you know walking around being edgy
57:04teenagers and he asked me I believe if I
57:07had seen anything on the news or any
57:10updates about um a you know a murder
57:13that happened I had no knowledge of it
57:16and he well just pretty much right out
57:19and said that he did it and at first I
57:21really did not believe him it took a lot
57:23of convincing for me to think that it
57:25was real but when he started getting
57:27into details of what he did it it became
57:30more and more real and even then I mean
57:32I was so young and I had never been
57:34exposed to something like that that even
57:36after the conversation I mean after the
57:38conversation I was immediately scared of
57:40him until I got a chance to talk to his
57:44friend the only other person he told I
57:47really did not think it was real at all
57:50until I saw an article about it and the
57:53pieces matched and at that point I was
57:56like oh my God he actually did it he was
57:59ecstatic he was excited like he
58:03accomplished his life stream putting the
58:06horrific nature of what Daniel did aside
58:09the fact that he was so ecstatic after
58:11the murders indicates his grandiosity in
58:14narcissism he only cared about his
58:16accomplishment and was riding this high
58:18after he did it with obviously no
58:20concern for the victims when he was
58:23talking about it he lit up like he was
58:25genuinely happy kind of also in a way
58:28that he thought I would probably be very
58:30impressed about what he did it was very
58:34much like like kind of showing off this
58:36trophy there wasn't an ounce of how can
58:39I say this he was confident like there
58:41was not an ounce of anxiousness like oh
58:44I did this and I don't know what to do
58:45next I don't know what to do like oh my
58:47gosh there was none of that it was like
58:50I did this I'm not getting caught it was
58:53a perfect crime I did this this and that
58:56and uh very triumphant kind of like he
58:59beat the system like these stupid cops
59:01they're never going to figure it out
59:03because you know I did such a good job
59:05back in the interrogation room after
59:07hearing the audio Daniel is finally
59:09faced with the true gravity of his
59:11predicament it seems to be an effective
59:13tactic on the part of interrogators
59:15because finally they get a bit of
59:17honesty from their suspect so I mean you
59:20can tell that there's recordings and and
59:22stuff like that and uh tell me about the
59:25time you said the last time you talked
59:26to um to her was um few days ago tell me
59:31about how that happened how'd you go to
59:33how did you meet with her I went to her
59:35house in Dixon and I talked with
59:37her how did you did you knock on the
59:40front door and wait for her parents to
59:43answer and no how did you do it she came
59:47outside and we
59:50talked really yeah well she came outside
59:54and then brought me in and we went to a
59:55room and talked how how did you get into
59:58the room or to the house went in through
01:00:01the back through the door no there's
01:00:05like a back
01:00:07door so went through the back door yes
01:00:13so can I ask
01:00:15something well I'm I'm going to ask you
01:00:18why are you lying about that or why
01:00:19would she
01:00:20completely tell us a different story
01:00:23about how this last cont he went T well
01:00:26I went there and I went in yeah and I
01:00:30talked to her that's completely
01:00:32different than what you just said how
01:00:33did you go in tell the
01:00:35truth I went in through the back door
01:00:38through what part of the back door the
01:00:40doggy door the doggy door okay this
01:00:43admission is huge as it opens a door to
01:00:45an entirely different side of Daniel
01:00:47that he has thus far been attempting to
01:00:49hide breaking into his girlfriend's
01:00:51house is a massive boundary violation
01:00:53and demonstrates a complete compl
01:00:54disregard for social norms and laws as
01:00:57well as her autonomy and rights as an
01:00:59individual as it turns out this may have
01:01:01been the mistake that led to Daniel's
01:01:04capture so I was on the phone with his
01:01:06ex-friend in my bedroom and we were
01:01:09discussing him we were discussing how
01:01:11his behaviors were getting more um in
01:01:14our eyes unstable how we didn't know
01:01:16quite what he was going to do next we
01:01:18weren't on the best you know terms and
01:01:21it was also very close to our
01:01:24relationship ship ending so things were
01:01:26tense we were discussing on our next
01:01:27move and I feel my phone vibrate while
01:01:30I'm on the phone I don't pay any mind to
01:01:32what I first I continue the conversation
01:01:34with me and his friend at the time but
01:01:37after a couple minutes I finally look
01:01:39down and it's a text from him and he
01:01:41said remember when I said I would break
01:01:44into your house or something along the
01:01:46lines of that it's not a direct quote
01:01:48I'm assuming he had
01:01:49previously made a joke about that but I
01:01:51don't quite remember I thought huh H
01:01:54that's funny continued the
01:01:57conversation and not long after my
01:01:59bedroom door opened and he walked in my
01:02:03room it was very late at night all my
01:02:06family was asleep no one had known that
01:02:09he had um was in my house obviously he
01:02:13had apparently uh broken in through my
01:02:16dog door um my sliding G glass door so
01:02:20he popped the cover off or something and
01:02:23just slid right in there and I remember
01:02:26just acting like I was on the phone with
01:02:28a girlfriend and I quickly hung up the
01:02:30phone I noticed he had a knife in his
01:02:31pocket and I just played cool haha what
01:02:34are you doing here this is all a funny
01:02:36joke because I'm thinking if I give off
01:02:39red alarms like oh my God I'm scared
01:02:41this is not cool if I get angry or
01:02:43whatever he's gonna attack me because
01:02:45that's not what he wanted he you know
01:02:48what I mean when he didn't get his way
01:02:50he tended to kind of get on the darker
01:02:53side so
01:02:55I hung up I after a couple minutes I
01:02:57texted his friend but I was unable to
01:03:01continue texting which really scared him
01:03:04he thought that's it she's dead like he
01:03:06was thinking that he was going to do
01:03:08something to me so at that point he had
01:03:12called the cops and the next morning I
01:03:14was getting picked up by detectives to
01:03:15go get interrogated but even though
01:03:18evidence is mounting against him Daniel
01:03:20makes one last ditch effort to convince
01:03:22the police of his innocence so this is
01:03:26the the whole thing about it all right
01:03:27you're going to play hard to get you're
01:03:28going to try to lie you're going to try
01:03:30to shade you're going to try to leave
01:03:31out things that are are inconvenient for
01:03:35you then that's not consistent with
01:03:38somebody who's saying I didn't do this
01:03:42okay it makes no sense I'm
01:03:46scared then tell the so terrified then
01:03:50tell the truth don't
01:03:52lie you went in the dog
01:03:55late at night and you went in and
01:03:57surprised her she had no idea you were
01:03:59coming and you're there poof suddenly it
01:04:02was a romantic gesture is that what
01:04:05happened yes it was a romantic gesture
01:04:09cuz I always used to say you know one of
01:04:10these days I'm just going to show up and
01:04:12I'm going to surprise you so if it was a
01:04:14romantic gesture dad then why the heck
01:04:16would you just sit here and baldface Li
01:04:18a with me cuz I am you guys are
01:04:20threatening me with
01:04:24with what the truth with getting
01:04:28arrested for two
01:04:31murders I
01:04:34am I am so scared right
01:04:37now of course I'm going to do anything I
01:04:40can to try and say that I didn't do this
01:04:43including lying to this police the two
01:04:44police officers who have been sitting
01:04:46here talking to don't a dick okay you
01:04:50don't have to take like a tone all of a
01:04:51sudden you were being hell friendly and
01:04:53now all a sudden Li to me Dan and and I
01:04:55know that you lied about that my life
01:04:59why should I Daniel's tone shifts very
01:05:01abruptly here going from near tears to
01:05:04anger almost
01:05:06instantly this can be interpreted as
01:05:08more evidence of how manipulative he is
01:05:11he can flip a switch from one emotion to
01:05:13the next to suit what he thinks he
01:05:14should be doing he's probably shocked
01:05:17that his lies and other manipulations
01:05:19aren't working because it's likely that
01:05:21his tactics usually work on people less
01:05:23attuned to his brand of psychological
01:05:26intricacies I'm not ruining your life
01:05:28I'm trying to solve a homicide a double
01:05:32homicide and if you do it I understand
01:05:35and I am there for you to try to make
01:05:37other people understand because I see it
01:05:40I see it in
01:05:41you and you're not alone you're not the
01:05:44only one I know it feels like you're the
01:05:46only one but you're
01:05:48not if you want to help me then don't
01:05:51ruin my
01:05:52life and anything send me to the
01:05:55psychiatric hospital okay we can talk
01:05:57about that I'd rather go there than jail
01:06:01okay I mean I'm psychotic that has some
01:06:04that has to you told me earlier that you
01:06:09psychotic did I yeah are you sure I am
01:06:13don't remember saying that you did I
01:06:15asked you if you had taken the no you
01:06:17asked me if what medication was an anti
01:06:19psychotic not if I was psychotic you ask
01:06:21me about the medication and it's
01:06:23technically is an addition to an
01:06:25anti-depressant destabilizing it is so I
01:06:27asked you if you had ever had any
01:06:29psychotic episodes or psychosis
01:06:32indicators and you said no so but you
01:06:35have you had any psychotic psychosis
01:06:38type indicators um that was just kind of
01:06:41a mental break but since then I've had
01:06:44no issues like
01:06:45that I remember
01:06:48it so don't lie to me okay we're pretty
01:06:52good at what we do
01:06:55all right and I'm not trying to ruin
01:06:57your life what doing SM this is the most
01:07:01significant show of emotion from Daniel
01:07:03so far perhaps because he realizes that
01:07:05the truth is coming closer to being
01:07:08revealed significantly the FBI agent
01:07:10seems to be structuring the confession
01:07:12as a way for Daniel to help himself
01:07:15rather than an opportunity to do the
01:07:16right thing he's likely picking up on
01:07:19the fact that Daniel will only confess
01:07:21if he thinks it will be good for him
01:07:26I'd rather be in a psychiatric hospital
01:07:28than be in jail okay Daniels mentions
01:07:30that he'd rather go to a psychiatric
01:07:32hospital than jail seem to be
01:07:35confessions he's not so tough anymore
01:07:37when he's faced with the reality that he
01:07:39may be locked up in a place with people
01:07:41far more threatening than the old couple
01:07:43he prayed on Daniel is weak at his core
01:07:47an emotionally fragile
01:07:50individual then tell us what happened
01:07:52and why that's what what I'm saying I
01:07:55don't doubt that you may end up down
01:07:57that that road and exactly in that place
01:08:00and get help and get treatment until
01:08:05proven unless you can prove with the
01:08:10evidence that it was me then I'm not
01:08:12going to so if I show you proof that it
01:08:14was actually you if I have physical
01:08:16evidence that it was you you're not
01:08:17going to admit to anything no if you
01:08:20you're going to continue to lie to
01:08:26that's what you're saying no what I'm
01:08:31is unless you can show me something that
01:08:34flat out says it was you and why would I
01:08:37say okay it was
01:08:39me if you think you belong in a
01:08:41psychiatric hospital then that's because
01:08:45you have this all this stuff in your
01:08:47past you have all this stuff in your
01:08:49brain you just want to be outside of
01:08:50your head but you can't and this is the
01:08:54only thing that gave you a place a safe
01:08:57place a a place to land a refuge
01:09:00anything that that gets you to
01:09:04feel either way they pretty
01:09:09much pretty
01:09:18much just tell us that you need help I
01:09:22need help
01:09:24okay that's the first
01:09:38step so let's go back to the first time
01:09:40you thought about killing
01:09:43someone how long ago was that years
01:09:46ago how many
01:09:52six six when you're like 10 when I was
01:09:5610 I thought about and plotted about
01:09:59killing the woman that my mother left my
01:10:01father for your kindergarten teacher yes
01:10:04because you were so angry at her yeah
01:10:07okay I saw her as the reason that my
01:10:09family was ripped apart in in a way she
01:10:11was a big part of that so she was going
01:10:14to be held
01:10:17responsible okay so what what were you
01:10:19going to do at age 10 what was your plan
01:10:22to SL through okay how are you going to
01:10:24do that I knew where she lived I she
01:10:28came over frequently I didn't at the
01:10:30time really I was
01:10:3210 I didn't have a plan so when's the
01:10:36next time that you remember thinking
01:10:37about killing
01:10:40someone uh seventh
01:10:42grade and who was that it wasn't anyone
01:10:46in particular it was just I thought
01:10:48about everybody at that school gave me
01:10:50so much that I just thought about just
01:10:52showing up one day and see how many I
01:10:56could take out before they took me out
01:10:57the anger was boiling
01:11:03yeah eighth grade I still had the same
01:11:06desire school this is Middle School now
01:11:10yeah ninth grade is when it got more
01:11:15intense every
01:11:17time I look at someone in my mind I see
01:11:22flashes of image is of me killing them
01:11:25okay in numerous ways and numerous
01:11:28horrible ways doing terrible things I
01:11:31can't help it it's just what comes into
01:11:33my head when I see them I don't want it
01:11:36to I don't like that it does but it does
01:11:39right and that's around the time that
01:11:42started these were other people at
01:11:44school um
01:11:46students it's with everyone everyone
01:11:49everyone I look at okay family members
01:11:52family members
01:11:55doesn't matter it's fing disgusting but
01:12:01is okay it's not a
01:12:04desire it's a thought just appears yeah
01:12:10I don't enjoy it finally after almost 4
01:12:13hours Daniel's walls are coming down
01:12:16after a 2month long investigation police
01:12:19are about to get the answers they so
01:12:21dutifully have been searching for
01:12:24but even now Daniel has to make sure
01:12:26that he has no chance of getting away
01:12:28with his terrible crime before
01:12:30confessing when was the first time you
01:12:31started thinking about killing these
01:12:33people down the
01:12:40street I
01:12:47really I
01:12:49didn't you didn't start thinking about
01:12:55I that night I
01:12:57just I couldn't take it
01:13:00anymore I had to do
01:13:03it I lost control of
01:13:06my okay I just went into the
01:13:12street wandered around for a while
01:13:17just looking for who would
01:13:21be which house I should go to
01:13:24it would be a
01:13:26good okay were you by yourself down yeah
01:13:29what time of night was
01:13:31it I think it was like 2: in the
01:13:34morning 2 or
01:13:383 okay do you remember what day the week
01:13:43was I think it was Friday night either
01:13:46Friday night or Saturday night okay and
01:13:50when you said you went on the street
01:13:51where did you start out that evening
01:13:52that night
01:13:55um I just kind of walked all around
01:14:00Davis so and where do you remember next
01:14:03where did you how did you find yourself
01:14:04over um by your dad's house well I've
01:14:08been walking down the streets
01:14:11trying scoping out apartment complexes
01:14:15and houses
01:14:18just trying to see you know who would be
01:14:22which one can I do it too who left their
01:14:24door unlocked his windows open I got a
01:14:27hole in the screen not even a hole just
01:14:30a flap that I could get in out
01:14:33with climbed in through the
01:14:37back listened for storm I heard
01:14:41it went to their
01:14:43bedroom I opened the
01:14:46door and I just kind of stood over their
01:14:48bed watching them sleep for a few
01:14:51minutes my body body was
01:14:54trembling I
01:14:57was nervous but excited and
01:15:03exhilarated I was actually going to do
01:15:05it I was there the sensations Daniel
01:15:09describes are indeed evidence of
01:15:11excitement yet as he recounts the crime
01:15:14he's able to sit eerily still and he
01:15:17remains emotionally flat it doesn't look
01:15:19like he's enjoying recounting the crime
01:15:21or reliving it as might be
01:15:24expected somehow the FBI agent manages
01:15:27not to display any sort of shock or
01:15:29repulsion to the barrage of horrifying
01:15:31facts which is fortunate as such an
01:15:33approach could shut Daniel down and stop
01:15:35the confession
01:15:37prematurely what were you wearing when
01:15:39you we
01:15:42um those boots um black socks black
01:15:47pants like
01:15:49these black undershirt black jacket uh
01:15:53black gloves and a black ski
01:15:58mask okay um where are those things
01:16:04down in my
01:16:07garage at your M
01:16:09sauce what are they inside
01:16:13of I dispersed them all throughout the
01:16:16garage when police searched Daniel's
01:16:18mother's house they found the items
01:16:20exactly where Daniel described however
01:16:23the souls of his sneakers had also been
01:16:25taped over like they suspected he'd done
01:16:27with his boots it was unclear if this
01:16:30was a practice run to see if the tape
01:16:32would effectively obscure his Footprints
01:16:34or if he had instead worn these shoes to
01:16:36commit the crime how about the
01:16:40knife where's that it's in the garage it
01:16:43should be on one of the shelves when you
01:16:45walk in on the left and what does it
01:16:48look like it's a buck knife you ever
01:16:50seen the movie Scream mm it's like ghost
01:16:53face knife like that exact one thought
01:16:57that was kind of cool where did you get
01:16:58that I found it in my mom's
01:17:02bedroom oh it's to your mom's yeah I
01:17:06found it under her desk how long
01:17:10before few
01:17:13weeks how many houses would you say you
01:17:15checked like the knobs the doors and and
01:17:17looked at the screens and
01:17:19Stu a lot
01:17:26like 50 50 checked a
01:17:30lot mostly in the area around Co there
01:17:32or um just kind of spread out um there
01:17:38apartments by my house called the
01:17:39Renaissance Apartments or something I
01:17:42checked there then from there I went
01:17:44like back into the back path and just
01:17:46went around there and I just kind of
01:17:48went around a 2 m radius at my house
01:17:52this was the unlucky house that Daniel
01:17:54chose to enter that fateful night
01:17:56shockingly it was just a few doors down
01:17:58from where Daniel's father lived inside
01:18:02Oliver chip Northup age 887 and his wife
01:18:05Claudia mopin age 76 slept with no idea
01:18:09of the approaching threat chip was a
01:18:11World War II veteran who later became a
01:18:14lawyer Claudia was also a hard worker
01:18:17having been a political activist during
01:18:191960s she was described by her daughter
01:18:22as having endless kindness and
01:18:25support in an exclusive interview with
01:18:27ewu Claudia's granddaughter Sarah had
01:18:30this to say about her
01:18:32grandmother my Granda was everything I
01:18:35looked up to her she was always happy to
01:18:38see me always just had a little pep in
01:18:40her step when she was around me even as
01:18:43really young kid thought I just looked
01:18:45up to her and I adored her literally
01:18:47down to the way she walked and the way
01:18:49she giggled and the way she just walked
01:18:52into the room and everybody kind of lit
01:18:53up around her and so when she passed and
01:18:55everybody was telling me that they you
01:18:57know your Granda was my best friend and
01:18:58I was like man she had a lot of best
01:19:00friends but as time progressed I
01:19:02realized it's because she valued all
01:19:04those people individually for who they
01:19:07were and listened to them and advise
01:19:09them like she did for me but she did
01:19:12that with everybody in fact Sarah and
01:19:14her Granda were so close that she even
01:19:16walked Claudia down the aisle when she
01:19:18married chip in
01:19:201996 they had both had previous marriage
01:19:23but didn't let the fact that they met
01:19:25later in life temper their love for each
01:19:27other Chip's stepdaughter Merida has
01:19:29never spoken to the media about this
01:19:31case before but broke her silence to
01:19:34tell IU a bit about chip in this
01:19:36exclusive interview he was a strong
01:19:39personality he was very honest he was
01:19:42very by the book he was very much a rule
01:19:44follower and he had raised six children
01:19:49prior to to marrying my mom he had had
01:19:51all of his children with his first wife
01:19:52wife and he was a good stepfather to my
01:19:56brother and to me he was a terrific
01:19:59husband to my mom and he was a terrific
01:20:01husband to Claudia and even though they
01:20:03had some of their interests were very
01:20:05different compared to like my my mom and
01:20:07his favorite activities he was just he
01:20:09was a great husband and he he loved
01:20:13practicing law and that was one of the
01:20:15things that made it all the more like
01:20:18ironic which is not even strong enough
01:20:20of a word that they would that somebody
01:20:23like that would take their life same
01:20:25with Claudia being a life counselor in
01:20:26her past and doing spiritual counseling
01:20:29it was
01:20:30just he couldn't have picked two more
01:20:34people that would have advocated more
01:20:35for his like rights as a human had had
01:20:39they known each other when they were
01:20:41alive Merida also shared this delightful
01:20:44story about how chip and Claudia came to
01:20:46find each other later in life he was in
01:20:49his 70s I believe and I came over to the
01:20:53house one night where he and my mother
01:20:55had lived and he's watering the garden
01:20:58with a hose in his hand and a cocktail
01:21:01and I said what are you doing and he
01:21:03said you know I don't have a lot of time
01:21:06left and I didn't know what he meant but
01:21:09he was trying to segue into how he had
01:21:12met a woman and he was serious about her
01:21:15and I was probably going to meet her in
01:21:18person very
01:21:19shortly and then I meet Claudia and were
01:21:22in the house and it wasn't the same
01:21:24evening but it was sometime thereafter
01:21:26not too long and I asked her how she met
01:21:29chip and this is in I mean this is pre-
01:21:32online dating so to speak and she says
01:21:35she met him in the man catalog and I
01:21:39said what's the man catalog and she
01:21:43pulls out a copy of the church directory
01:21:46from the Unitarian Church and it had
01:21:49these color pictures of all the members
01:21:51and she said honey I saw him in here H
01:21:55she was a Buddhist and she had narrowed
01:21:57down some of the religions that she
01:21:59thought she would be most compatible
01:22:00with and she had chosen unitarians as as
01:22:03one that might work so she said I found
01:22:06him in the Unitarian catalog and I
01:22:08looked at the picture and I said Claudia
01:22:10my mom's in this picture she said I know
01:22:14I had seen him before but later I heard
01:22:16your mom had passed away and that's when
01:22:18I decided he's the one I'd like to meet
01:22:22and so always laugh because the man
01:22:24catalog was the church directory it
01:22:27seems that these family members agree
01:22:29that chip and Claudia lived their lives
01:22:31with love keeping their families and
01:22:33community in mind as a result their
01:22:36horrible demise could not have come is
01:22:39more of a shock the morning of April
01:22:4114th 2014 chip and Claudia
01:22:44uncharacteristically missed church when
01:22:47family members tried calling their house
01:22:49there was no answer later that day when
01:22:52chip missed a performance with his folk
01:22:54band a family member went to the house
01:22:57but once again was unable to make
01:22:59contact by that evening when chip and
01:23:02Claudia still hadn't been heard from
01:23:04Claudia's daughter called the police
01:23:07together Claudia's daughter and the
01:23:08police made the terrifying discovery
01:23:10that the back window screen had been
01:23:12carefully sliced open by flashlight they
01:23:15got their first traumatizing look at the
01:23:18scene Claudia's daughter Victoria
01:23:20recounts her experience finding out
01:23:22about the crime in an exclusive
01:23:24conversation with EO her sister was the
01:23:27one who first entered the residence with
01:23:29police and we had planned on saying a
01:23:31quick kiss goodbye everybody was too
01:23:34tired that we would see her later in the
01:23:35week right so went home um just really
01:23:40happy knew I aced the test and good
01:23:43night sleep and got up for work the next
01:23:45morning at 5: in the
01:23:46morning and picked up the phone and
01:23:48there were 12 missed calls from my
01:23:51sister which was very
01:23:54unusual so here it is 5: in the morning
01:23:57I just woke up I'm pouring my coffee I
01:24:01call my sister back and she's very calm
01:24:05in that eerily calm way and she said
01:24:10honey somebody's broken into mom Mommy's
01:24:13house and there are two dead bodies in
01:24:18house and I I guess I immediately went
01:24:21into shock because
01:24:23I I didn't think that the dead bodies
01:24:25were mom and Chip I thought that because
01:24:29chip was he was in his 80s but he was
01:24:31very athletic and strong and exercised
01:24:35and all that right so I thought that
01:24:37somebody had broken into the house and
01:24:39Chip had killed them and she said did
01:24:42you hear about the double murder in
01:24:43Davis and I said I did and she said what
01:24:46about chip and Claudia and I'm like no I
01:24:48don't think so I think it's in an
01:24:50apartment complex so she and I I are
01:24:53both frantically trying to Google
01:24:56addresses and look at pictures and try
01:24:58and bring up the article and then I
01:25:01realized that in the background of one
01:25:04of the news videos I can see this
01:25:08Sunburst Design This Iron Decor that
01:25:12Claudia had up on the side of the house
01:25:14and I see that's in the picture now in
01:25:15the meantime I've called both their
01:25:17numbers and left messages saying it's
01:25:20Merida can you call me back back and I
01:25:22didn't call either of them frequently so
01:25:24it would have been unusual that they got
01:25:25a message from me and then in the course
01:25:28of that morning which was also the same
01:25:30morning is the Boston Marathon and the
01:25:31Boston Bomber it's kind of all coming
01:25:34together that it's their house we we got
01:25:38there uh we turned down my mom's Street
01:25:41and it was lined with media with law
01:25:44enforcement with the corners um
01:25:47van and at that point I was just really
01:25:51intent on finding my mom because I knew
01:25:54she was in some police car or in jail or
01:25:57something and that she needed me so I
01:26:00jumped out of the car almost while it
01:26:01was still moving and I ran to the cop
01:26:04and of course the police officers came
01:26:06in and I just was crying and screaming
01:26:09and saying where's my mother where's my
01:26:11mother and trying to get them in trying
01:26:14to get them out of the way so I could
01:26:16get in the
01:26:17house and they they let me the big
01:26:21police officer let me push him a couple
01:26:23of times um but then he said no you're
01:26:26not going in that house there's police
01:26:29officers from surrounding counties from
01:26:31Sacramento County which is where I
01:26:33live and they were being all hush hush
01:26:36but they were being um kind you know and
01:26:41my partner Casey asked them several
01:26:43questions and the first thing she said
01:26:45was is Victoria's mother
01:26:48dead which I was
01:26:50thought why is she asking asking that
01:26:53and the police officer said
01:26:56yes oh and I
01:27:00started just kind of crying a little bit
01:27:03like it was breaking the tip of the
01:27:06iceberg right and then she said was
01:27:08Victoria's mother shot and he said no
01:27:13and and as she's going through the
01:27:15things right right and she gets too
01:27:18strangled and then she gets too
01:27:22when the police officer wouldn't look me
01:27:25in the eye and put his head down and
01:27:29yes that I I lost it I started
01:27:33screaming in the police station Chip's
01:27:37son Robert however was subjected to an
01:27:39additional level of trauma at the onset
01:27:41of the
01:27:42investigation he was later subpoena as a
01:27:44witness and therefore not allowed to
01:27:46attend the trial with the other family
01:27:48members even if he had wanted to it
01:27:51began this same morning that we learned
01:27:54about the murders I was in the kitchen
01:27:56of of my apartment and and my son was we
01:28:00both had started crying reeling from the
01:28:03loss they were blindsided by the first
01:28:05line of Investigation taken by police
01:28:09and we got to cry for about 15 seconds
01:28:11and my phone rang and it was already the
01:28:13police wanting me to come in and talk to
01:28:14them and that's just kind of how it went
01:28:16then for weeks and weeks um it made
01:28:19perfect sense at first that it it was
01:28:22natural to look at everyone who knew
01:28:23them and all that and I assumed that it
01:28:25would only take them a day or so to
01:28:27realize they were looking in the wrong
01:28:29place and and move on and uh that's not
01:28:32what happened at all they everything
01:28:33seemed to convince them more and more
01:28:35that it was indeed one of my sons my
01:28:37younger son who was the main suspect
01:28:39there there was one night he was
01:28:40literally crying about it saying you
01:28:42know it's not just that he didn't hurt
01:28:44them just he never hurt anyone he had no
01:28:47history of ever harming anybody I think
01:28:49what hurt for him was that they could
01:28:51even imagine he was capable of doing
01:28:53that for the first two months after the
01:28:55murders Robert's younger son was the
01:28:57Prime Suspect the family was subjected
01:29:00to multiple searches of their property
01:29:02close scrutiny from the community and
01:29:04robbed of the opportunity to grieve on
01:29:07one occasion police investigated the
01:29:09Firearms owned by the family even though
01:29:12no such weapon had been used to kill
01:29:14chip and Claudia as a result of this
01:29:17particular search Robert was late to his
01:29:20father's memorial service
01:29:22additionally Robert's professional image
01:29:24was permanently damaged his important
01:29:26computers notebooks and other items he
01:29:29needed to complete his work were
01:29:30collected as evidence while the searches
01:29:33were legal if there were warrants it's
01:29:35possible that the family could bring a
01:29:37civil suit against the police Agency for
01:29:39abuse of process which requires showing
01:29:42the misuse of a judicial process cases
01:29:45like this are rare because to succeed in
01:29:47an action for Abus of process a litigant
01:29:50must establish that the defendant one
01:29:53contemplated an ulterior motive in using
01:29:55the judicial process and two committed a
01:29:58willful act in the use of that process
01:30:01not proper in the regular conduct of the
01:30:03proceedings another part of the ongoing
01:30:05nightmare they did a very extensive
01:30:08search on my apartment that took them
01:30:09more than 8 hours they cut out pieces of
01:30:12carpet they took out a lot of Plumbing I
01:30:15mean they looked for evidence in all the
01:30:17strangest places and I thought that
01:30:19meant now they know for sure there was
01:30:21nothing to find
01:30:22but what they instead found was an old
01:30:24notebook my son had done cartoons in and
01:30:27they found one picture on one page of
01:30:29that notebook that convinced them that
01:30:31he had actually drawn a picture of the
01:30:33crime itself a picture of a figure
01:30:35standing over a bed holding a large
01:30:37knife with two people in the bed what's
01:30:40ironic about that is that that picture
01:30:42had been drawn years before they would
01:30:44have seen in the notebook many more
01:30:46pages after that with drawings on them
01:30:48they would have also seen the same two
01:30:50characters in that picture persists
01:30:51throughout the whole series they didn't
01:30:53get killed in that scene they just saw a
01:30:55figure standing over the bed this
01:30:57drawing was apparently the sole piece of
01:31:00so-called evidence that the police found
01:31:02to incriminate Robert's son all the same
01:31:05it was deemed compelling enough to
01:31:06Warrant continuing investigation for the
01:31:08next two months until Daniel Marsh came
01:31:11into the picture it wasn't until much
01:31:14much later during the trial that the
01:31:16families finally did find out the
01:31:18specifics of what had happened to their
01:31:20loved ones when they finally did it
01:31:23could hardly be expected to bring them
01:31:26peace what Daniel did to his victims was
01:31:29so gory that we can only provide this
01:31:31limited view of the interior of the
01:31:33house this was taken in the master
01:31:35bedroom where the bodies of both victims
01:31:39found his almost reverent recollection
01:31:42of the crime might be as chilling as the
01:31:44crime scene itself I was there it's
01:31:50happening was almost like an out of body
01:31:53experience I just I didn't feel like I
01:31:56was really there like it was
01:32:01real and the woman woke
01:32:04up so I just started stabbing
01:32:08her over and
01:32:11over okay I'll the Torso and I try to
01:32:17get then the husband woke up and he
01:32:21looked over and just as he looked over I
01:32:23stabbed him in the
01:32:26neck and then I went back to killing the
01:32:28woman cuz she wouldn't
01:32:32die you're stabbing her in the Torso and
01:32:34she just wouldn't die yeah like I I
01:32:37stabbed her a lot as you obviously
01:32:42know it took a long
01:32:45time and it was a lot easier with the
01:32:47guy than it was with her where did you
01:32:50stab him started in the neck and then I
01:32:54just kind of went all
01:32:57over I stabbed her until she stopped
01:32:59moving and she was just kind of
01:33:02twitching I went over to him because I'd
01:33:05only stabbed him once at a time cuz you
01:33:07know I had to
01:33:09finish that one
01:33:13and I just started stabbing him in the
01:33:16Torso as
01:33:20um even when they were dead I wasn't
01:33:23done I actually at one point took out my
01:33:27phone with the left hand and I shined it
01:33:29so I could see
01:33:31better and then he woke up at some point
01:33:34did she was she screaming or was she
01:33:36making any noise yeah she
01:33:39screamed loud medium muffled medium it
01:33:43got muffled CU I put my hand on mou
01:33:48okay all right and then he woke up the
01:33:52second he wok up he like turned over
01:33:54looked at me and as soon as I like saw
01:33:56him turn over just reached over and got
01:34:00him like right here right here you're
01:34:02like underneath your kind of yeah
01:34:04somewhere the right side of his jaw yeah
01:34:06under his
01:34:08jaw did you feel penetrate a lot was it
01:34:10a was it a good one yeah they all were
01:34:13actually like I felt screen Bon few
01:34:17times although Daniel implied that he
01:34:20enjoyed the ACT since he continued to
01:34:22stab the victims even after they were
01:34:24dead he doesn't seem to be enjoying the
01:34:26retelling of the murders he's speaking
01:34:29with apathy and low energy at the same
01:34:32time he's speaking casually so he also
01:34:34doesn't seem affected by the memories
01:34:39okay and that stopped him from resisting
01:34:43at that point well yeah but then he was
01:34:45just like grabbing his neck trying to
01:34:47stop it bleeding everywhere it was like
01:34:53Stu do you remember her saying anything
01:34:56to me to you you said that she was told
01:34:58us that she was screaming some no she
01:35:01gasped and then she started screaming
01:35:06and she didn't scream that long
01:35:09after okay did she say anything to you
01:35:12though sometimes people you know oh she
01:35:15me to stop BL you like what did she say
01:35:18please stop please please stop
01:35:24up shockingly Dan has a strong enough
01:35:27stomach to casually eat and drink as he
01:35:29describes the lurid details of the
01:35:32murders it's disturbing to know that
01:35:34Claudia begged him to stop hearing this
01:35:37plea should tap into a murderer Human
01:35:39Side possibly make them stop and run off
01:35:43Daniel is void of any empathy for others
01:35:45which is why the victim's plea meant
01:35:47nothing to
01:35:49him all right did you say anything to
01:35:53M and did he say anything to you he
01:35:56didn't have a chance I kind
01:35:59of just went got his
01:36:03neck once again Daniel fails to show any
01:36:06remorse for his actions and instead
01:36:08laughs before recounting how Claudia
01:36:10mopin begged for her life estimate on
01:36:13how many times you might have stabbed
01:36:24I'm trying to think
01:36:27uh it like at least 20 times you guys
01:36:31should know the actual account right
01:36:33yeah we have to ask you it was like in
01:36:38the minimum of 20 probably no more than
01:36:4130 know okay didn't count how about with
01:36:47same I think it's going to turn to be
01:36:49more the FBI AG was right autopsies
01:36:53revealed that Daniel stabbed chip and
01:36:55Claudia more than twice as many times as
01:36:57he reported chip was stabbed 61 times
01:37:01and Claudia 67 times I just kind of
01:37:05messed around
01:37:06this I open most of their torsos around
01:37:11here and in the woman I put a phone
01:37:15inside of her and I put a cup inside the
01:37:17guy I don't know
01:37:19why I really know
01:37:22Victoria Claudia's daughter states that
01:37:24they had to go to extreme links in order
01:37:26to make her body presentable again I I
01:37:29was just really intent on seeing my
01:37:31mother I wanted to see her face but I
01:37:35didn't know her face was
01:37:37destroyed so the coroner was saying no
01:37:41no no the the funeral home was saying no
01:37:44no no we're going to we're going to have
01:37:46a closed casket and I pulled the the
01:37:49funeral director aside and I said Hey
01:37:51look look this is a really close
01:37:53community and family we need to see my
01:37:56mother's face to say goodbye I still
01:37:58didn't know that the face was destroyed
01:38:00I had no idea I said look I I think that
01:38:04her throat has been cut but you could
01:38:06restore her face and I remember saying
01:38:09that to the mortician and the
01:38:10mortician's looking kind of looking her
01:38:12eyes around like this like thinking can
01:38:14I do this can I do this and she said
01:38:17okay we're going to have to get a
01:38:19specialist so we got a specialist the
01:38:23woman came and when we finally did see
01:38:25our mom she looked like our mom Against
01:38:28All Odds Claudia's family was able to
01:38:30bid her a proper goodbye despite the
01:38:33terrible injuries left on her
01:38:35body and so the cup and the phone who
01:38:39what did you put into who I put the
01:38:41phone into the woman and the cup into
01:38:43the man where did you find those in the
01:38:46kitchen okay what else did you do in the
01:38:49kitchen when you were what led you to
01:38:51the kitchen to see the cup and the phone
01:38:54the kitchen was on the way to the back
01:38:56where I came in from and I was heading
01:38:59out and then I was like I don't even
01:39:04know honestly I just wanted to the
01:39:07people who had to like investigate it
01:39:09yeah that would be us
01:39:11yeah throw them off make it look a
01:39:13little make it look just what the
01:39:17hell it
01:39:20work do you remember any other cutting
01:39:22on his body in particular and any
01:39:27else like a lot in the Torso and in the
01:39:35neck oh in the forehead his forehead too
01:39:39what was that about is it exploration
01:39:43curiosity or and yeah plus I've never
01:39:46actually stabbed someone so I want to
01:39:48see how effective the knife
01:39:50was and I kind of like I punched them a
01:39:56times at what point at the beginning
01:39:59then this is when they were dead this is
01:40:00after they dead
01:40:02okay just kind of like hit them a
01:40:08lunch I'm not going to lie it
01:40:14amazing how did it feel
01:40:19man felt great
01:40:22I it was pure happiness and adrenaline
01:40:27and dopamine just all of it rushing over
01:40:33me most exhilarating enjoyable feeling
01:40:36I've ever felt was a lot Messier
01:40:40and it didn't go I expected what was
01:40:45different this was a lot more
01:40:49exciting more
01:40:52intense the actual stabbing was more
01:40:54exciting and intense than slit in their
01:40:56throat cuz it was actually
01:40:59like they were awaken knowing and
01:41:05resisting that en tighten the experience
01:41:08you with Daniel's confession now in hand
01:41:11police were left with the burning
01:41:13question of what might drive a
01:41:1415-year-old boy to butcher two innocent
01:41:16people and claim to have enjoyed it the
01:41:20answer May lie in further memories
01:41:22Daniel shared from his
01:41:24childhood tell us again how how far back
01:41:27the dreams of hurting
01:41:29people started started my around the
01:41:33time I turned
01:41:3614 and what would the dreams be like
01:41:39what was a typical
01:41:41dream I wonder this big city that I've
01:41:45never seen
01:41:48and I just killed ever was on the
01:41:53street it evolved from there to
01:41:58and I got to the point where I don't
01:42:01know why but I would dream that the
01:42:04people I was killing were the people I
01:42:07about and things I was doing were to
01:42:11them and to other people as well and but
01:42:15when I see someone I just get those
01:42:18images and thoughts but
01:42:22there's a difference between a thought
01:42:23and a
01:42:25desire talk a little more about that
01:42:28what how how have they related and how
01:42:30did they occur in your
01:42:33experience I've had these thoughts but
01:42:36that doesn't mean I want to have them or
01:42:38want to act on them right can you see it
01:42:43different some aspects of
01:42:47it which
01:42:51I think that I can be treated
01:42:55for being
01:42:57homicidal I know that I can't be the
01:43:00first one I'm not obviously I know that
01:43:04there has to be some sort of treatment
01:43:05for him the no sympathy or empathy I
01:43:09don't think I can change that do you
01:43:12remember a time when you did have it I
01:43:14did yeah I wasn't always like this what
01:43:18age were you think that changed
01:43:21prob like
01:43:2214 I just it just
01:43:26disappeared this claim that his empathy
01:43:28disappeared doesn't fit Norms perhaps
01:43:31this marks the time when Daniel first
01:43:33came to this
01:43:34realization typically individuals with
01:43:37aspd and psychopathy began showing signs
01:43:40of their illness much
01:43:41younger it's likely however that there
01:43:44could have been some sort of trauma he
01:43:45experienced at the age of
01:43:4714 it's very possible that Daniel cared
01:43:50less and less because maybe he had to
01:43:52cut off his emotions for other reasons
01:43:55when children and teens deal with trauma
01:43:57or other major life stressors they may
01:44:00cut off emotions entirely this can be
01:44:03considered an Adaptive response in many
01:44:05ways because feeling those difficult
01:44:07emotions could be far too distressing
01:44:10did you ever look up on a computer and
01:44:12do research on
01:44:17yeah why did you do
01:44:19that I looked up sociopath and
01:44:22psychopath because I always found it
01:44:24fascinating and The more I've aged the
01:44:27more I can
01:44:29relate CU I don't feel sppy for other
01:44:32people at
01:44:34all don't feel empathy for
01:44:40and whether I like that or not it's the
01:44:43way it is just
01:44:45like I want to hurt people I want to
01:44:48kill people but I don't want to want
01:44:50want that I wish it wasn't that way it's
01:44:54the way I
01:44:56am I'm I'm it whether I like it or not a
01:45:00diagnosis of psychopathy could explain
01:45:03though certainly not excuse Daniel's
01:45:05murderous actions there's a theory that
01:45:08individuals with psychopathy have such a
01:45:10high threshold for feeling emotions that
01:45:13they need something major to happen in
01:45:14order to elicit any feeling at all as a
01:45:18result the only things that really
01:45:19stimulate emotion like a normal person
01:45:22would feel are very extreme things like
01:45:25death violence or intense fear
01:45:28disturbingly this could mean Daniel's
01:45:30killing just to feel something
01:45:31explanation is not as far-fetched as it
01:45:34sounds however soon we will learn about
01:45:36Daniel's current feelings regarding his
01:45:39actions thanks to direct correspondence
01:45:41with him and his new
01:45:44fiance when Daniel was officially
01:45:46assessed for psychopathy disorder he
01:45:49scored a 35o 8 out of a possible 40 one
01:45:53of the highest scores ever seen for
01:45:55comparison Jeffrey dmer scored 23 out of
01:45:5840 and John Wayne gasy 27 out of 40 and
01:46:02their scores are considered high in fact
01:46:06Daniel's score is so extreme that it
01:46:08raises the question if his mental health
01:46:10history was curated to explain away
01:46:12crimes he planned to commit in the
01:46:14future it's possible that he intended to
01:46:16use this history as a fail safe in case
01:46:19he got caught to lesson punishment with
01:46:22his IQ of 114 which is the very high end
01:46:25of normal it's possible that Daniel was
01:46:27smart enough to pull this off however
01:46:30the only thing we'll know for certain in
01:46:32this regard is that Daniel's brain is
01:46:34wired extraordinarily different from the
01:46:36average human had Daniel not been
01:46:39apprehended his crimes would likely have
01:46:41continued in increasingly debased
01:46:44ways since that time has it been
01:46:47building again
01:46:49yes have you thought about what you were
01:46:51going to do
01:46:54yes about
01:46:56that the same thing a different mask and
01:46:59a different gloves a different jacket
01:47:02and instead of breaking in I figured I'd
01:47:05get somebody on there alone at night out
01:47:07in the street or out somewhere just find
01:47:09somebody alone at night and beat him to
01:47:10death with a baseball bat did you have
01:47:13anybody in mind no had you actually gone
01:47:16on looking for someone yeah when was
01:47:21I don't remember done it a couple times
01:47:24a couple times since two months
01:47:27ago did uh you have any contacts did you
01:47:30think any find anybody that you think
01:47:32would be
01:47:38likely now that he spilled all the
01:47:40details of his crime Daniel appears to
01:47:43have no reluctance when admitting that
01:47:45he would like to kill again this
01:47:48statement would have a direct impact on
01:47:49his fate within the legal system his
01:47:52later assertation that he aspired to be
01:47:54a serial killer certainly wouldn't help
01:47:56either for now though the interrogators
01:47:59have all the information they need what
01:48:02questions you have for
01:48:05me was I really screwed either way
01:48:09okay good
01:48:12yeah we would have found all that stuff
01:48:14and we would have tested would have come
01:48:16back with blood on it would have been
01:48:17the victim's blood and
01:48:22was there actually DNA list back there
01:48:23though at the crime scene there are
01:48:27unknown DNA
01:48:29profiles I don't know if they're yours
01:48:31or not we'll find
01:48:32out could be people other people in the
01:48:35house that we don't know about that we
01:48:37don't have identified that we haven't
01:48:38compared those profiles
01:48:42with if there was did you think you
01:48:44might have made a small error at the
01:48:48house I don't think I did that's what I
01:48:54thinking no it was a it was a very well
01:48:57executed CME no doubt about
01:49:01it thank
01:49:07you clearly you're a smart guy
01:49:11and but for these afflictions I
01:49:15think would have a different life no
01:49:18doubt yeah uh
01:49:21pretty much done
01:49:23now it may seem as though Daniel has
01:49:26exhausted all potential shock Factor but
01:49:28as it turns out he has one more chilling
01:49:31statement to make however this one is
01:49:34delivered by
01:49:36request you um mentioned that pretty
01:49:40much everybody you meet you have
01:49:42thoughts about killing them and how you
01:49:43would kill them yeah so how would you
01:49:47me there's a lot of ways I mean that
01:49:50you've thought of so far in the couple
01:49:52hours that we spent together here well
01:49:55choking you to death with your tie okay
01:49:58beating your face into the mirror until
01:49:59it broke and using the glass to cut your
01:50:02arteries uh gouging your eyes out and
01:50:04just smashing your face into the
01:50:07wall nothing personal I don't take it
01:50:09personal okay it's just that's what
01:50:13happens when you meet somebody when
01:50:15you're thinking when there's that time
01:50:16when involuntary it's something just
01:50:20happens it's like breathing you breathe
01:50:23you don't think about it it just happens
01:50:25can't control it I couldn't if I wanted
01:50:28to and I do want
01:50:31to on that note the FBI agent steps out
01:50:34for a moment to begin the booking
01:50:36process during an earlier moment in the
01:50:38interrogation when Daniel was no longer
01:50:40under the watchful eye of the police a
01:50:43different perhaps more accurate side of
01:51:29Daniel was brought to trial for the
01:51:30murders of Chip norup and Claudia mopin
01:51:33which lasted 5 weeks despite the
01:51:36brutality of the crime Claudia's
01:51:38daughter Victoria and her granddaughter
01:51:40Sarah both mentioned that they find a
01:51:42small amount of solace in the knowledge
01:51:44that chip and Claudia died together as
01:51:46they always wanted Victoria was once
01:51:49again again willing to share her Insight
01:51:51on the experience starting with the
01:51:53moment she first saw Daniel at the trial
01:51:57and here he comes and he come they bring
01:51:58him right up to me right up to me like
01:52:01this I'm if I turn like this I could
01:52:03have I could have touched him right and
01:52:06I thought to myself in that moment this
01:52:08is your chance V get him right and and I
01:52:11thought I could just grab him right and
01:52:14I could just push him into the marble a
01:52:16couple of times but I felt my daughter
01:52:19behind me
01:52:21and she must have known what was going
01:52:23on because she wrapped her arms around
01:52:25me in this huge bear hug from behind and
01:52:28she says in my ear mama don't do it mama
01:52:32don't touch him we need to go into the
01:52:35courtroom and we need to be there and
01:52:37understand so don't do it mama don't do
01:52:39it Claudia's granddaughter Sarah
01:52:41recounted her interactions with Daniel's
01:52:44family during the trial so we went and
01:52:47and put us in a little room and they
01:52:48were like we're going to bring you in
01:52:49into room at a certain time and we went
01:52:52to go down the small little narrow
01:52:57hallway and on one side was our family
01:53:01and the other side was his family which
01:53:04was a little baffling to me that we were
01:53:07literally three or in front of each
01:53:10other and they were teenagers mostly
01:53:12there was very quiet and stoic
01:53:15and this didn't my son's not responsible
01:53:17kind of like face like this is you know
01:53:20um but the teenagers were like just I
01:53:23don't want to say teenager because it's
01:53:24not it wasn't typical Behavior it was
01:53:27was almost mocking and they had free
01:53:29Daniel signs and t-shirts and apparently
01:53:32they had started site too a free Daniel
01:53:35Facebook and they it was an awkward like
01:53:38hour that we had to be with them the
01:53:41families remained in close proximity
01:53:43even after entering the courtroom
01:53:45Victoria Sarah and other members of the
01:53:47victim's families were seated directly
01:53:49behind Daniel's Father Bill Marsh during
01:53:52the proceedings Victoria's memory on the
01:53:54testimony from Daniel's friends is also
01:53:57enlightening and then the friends got up
01:54:01and his friends were just terrified
01:54:03young people his girlfriend and his best
01:54:06friend um got up and testified that when
01:54:09he was as early as 10 years old was
01:54:12talking about homicides and talking
01:54:14about and and actually hurting animals
01:54:17you know and and I saw him because of
01:54:20course I watched him right the whole
01:54:21trial so I saw
01:54:23him reacting to what his girlfriend and
01:54:26his friends were saying and they
01:54:29couldn't even look at him they were
01:54:31terrified and he was looking at them
01:54:33like I'm gonna get you I mean he there
01:54:36was so
01:54:38much manipulation and
01:54:41anger it just seething from him during
01:54:45that testimony of his friends Daniel's
01:54:49ex-girlfriend friend was required to
01:54:50testify at the trial because she was one
01:54:52of the people that turned Daniel into
01:54:54the police and was privy to the details
01:54:56of the crime from her recollection it
01:54:59sounds like this was a harrowing
01:55:01experience for her and I really don't
01:55:03remember much of it it was I mean I
01:55:05would into straight panic mode uh all I
01:55:08remember is I started uncontrollably
01:55:11crying on the stand and they have they
01:55:13had to bring out a dog for me at some
01:55:15point and they had to uh actually just
01:55:18take a whole break and let me go for a
01:55:20second and recuperate and come back I
01:55:22barely remember seeing Dan's face I
01:55:24barely remember seeing anybody I know I
01:55:26know I looked at the victim's family and
01:55:28I know I saw them but I don't remember
01:55:30anything about it because it was just
01:55:32such I I just blacked out essentially
01:55:35and I remember that I was on the stand
01:55:36and this is also something that I just
01:55:38feel the utmost guilt about because I I
01:55:41didn't know how to answer questions when
01:55:43I was on the stand I just kept saying I
01:55:44don't know I try to give the most
01:55:46information I could and they were asking
01:55:48very specific things and I was panicking
01:55:50and I just kept saying I don't know and
01:55:52I left the courtroom saying oh my God I
01:55:54did not help them at all I did not give
01:55:56them any information to this case that's
01:55:58going to make sure that he stays away I
01:56:00just kept saying I don't know and all I
01:56:03could think of at the time is that I
01:56:04wanted to talk to the victim's family I
01:56:06remember he tried to plead insanity and
01:56:09that's what me and his ex-friend were
01:56:11essentially there for is to be like no
01:56:14this was calculated it was planned and
01:56:18it was executed did with precision and
01:56:21celebrated after the fact there was no
01:56:24oh I kind of went crazy and this
01:56:26happened and oh my God now I regret it
01:56:28um it was like I took out the steps to
01:56:30make sure I did this right I did it and
01:56:32I'm happy I did it she also had this
01:56:35message to share with chip and Claudia's
01:56:37families I would just first and foremost
01:56:40apologize I would say I'm sorry I'm so
01:56:43sorry that I you wait so long I'm so
01:56:45sorry you spent those six months
01:56:47wondering what happened and all the
01:56:50horrific things that it must have put
01:56:51your family through I'm that they were
01:56:53investigated they had to turn over every
01:56:55leaf and really it we were we held the
01:56:59key to stop that part of their suffering
01:57:02and I cannot I mean I no matter how much
01:57:05I think about this situation there's
01:57:08always going to be that level of damn it
01:57:11why didn't I just go to the cops
01:57:14immediately why did I prolong it for so
01:57:16long what was there to think about I
01:57:18mean we ended up in the same place
01:57:20anyways like I said earlier no amount of
01:57:22planning will ever make you ready for
01:57:24that situation that's the one thing if I
01:57:26have one thing to go back in time and
01:57:28change that would be it I've realized
01:57:30your intuition your gut feeling when
01:57:32you're unsettled that feeling of offness
01:57:35it it really holds some power to it and
01:57:38some truth and you should definitely
01:57:40listen to that never go along with
01:57:42something you're not comfortable with
01:57:44further insight into how we can learn
01:57:46from this terrible crime comes from
01:57:48Robert ship's son he once again
01:57:51expressed frustration with the system
01:57:53wishing that Daniel's issues could have
01:57:55been taken seriously when they first
01:57:57arose I believe the first time that the
01:57:59police were called to the school because
01:58:01of him the second time they were called
01:58:03he had brought a knife to school um this
01:58:05was after the M but uh okay he had
01:58:07killed a raccoon in his backyard and the
01:58:11school counselor was very worried about
01:58:13how much he talked about wanting to kill
01:58:15people but by the time the police
01:58:17finally got there at least two of the
01:58:19people people were gone two of them had
01:58:21to go so the person who was still there
01:58:23to talk to the police didn't even have
01:58:24the direct information there's millions
01:58:27of kids with problems there's millions
01:58:28of kids who feel terrible about
01:58:30themselves but this is extremely rare to
01:58:33have a kid whose dream is to be a s
01:58:36pillar who starting at age 9 or 10 is
01:58:38fantasizing about all the ways he wants
01:58:40to murder people so and just to be aware
01:58:43there's a lot of kids who need help of
01:58:44one kind or another but there's this
01:58:46very very small number who just need to
01:58:48be ident identified as threats it seems
01:58:51there were multiple opportunities for
01:58:53Daniel's downward trajectory to be
01:58:55interrupted and yet nothing was done
01:58:57until it was too late and two people
01:59:00were dead Daniel was tried as an adult
01:59:03but as a result of policy changes made
01:59:05in 2016 and 2018 was able to appeal for
01:59:09a return to juvenile court and they did
01:59:13warn us uh at the DA's office that he
01:59:15would file appeals because of that new
01:59:18legislation he was entitled to what's
01:59:20called a fitness hearing a fitness
01:59:22hearing could have resulted in Daniel's
01:59:24case being returned to juvenile court in
01:59:27which case the trial would likely have
01:59:29to be repeated in protest Claudia's
01:59:32granddaughter Sarah organized with other
01:59:34victims affected by this law and they
01:59:36stood on the state capital steps all day
01:59:39lobbying for the governor to veto the
01:59:41law in the end their efforts didn't work
01:59:44but neither did Daniel's appeal the
01:59:47court determined that because his
01:59:49sentence was finalized before the new
01:59:51policies were signed he could not use
01:59:53the new laws to back his appeal in 2018
01:59:57Daniel gave a TED Talk entitled
01:59:59embracing our Humanity during which he
02:00:02discussed his childhood past trauma and
02:00:04experience in the prison system the
02:00:07recording of his presentation has since
02:00:09been removed and was not available upon
02:00:12request but in the transcript Daniel
02:00:14claims that throughout his childhood he
02:00:16felt quote alienated like was hated yet
02:00:21irrelevant he goes on to say it took me
02:00:24coming to prison to find the true value
02:00:26of human connection we must learn to
02:00:28respond with love even in the most
02:00:31situations however around the same time
02:00:33Daniel gave this speech he also
02:00:36allegedly got the wounds he inflicted on
02:00:38Claud and Chip tattooed on his own body
02:00:41so one has to question how sincere his
02:00:44speech actually is the murder has taken
02:00:46it all the way to the supre California
02:00:48Supreme Court Court they have turned him
02:00:51down so it's been 10 years of appeals
02:00:54they refuse to even hear it um so he I I
02:00:59we don't know according to the Das they
02:01:02say that he's not eligible to go to the
02:01:03federal courts because he was turned
02:01:05down by the Supreme Courts I don't know
02:01:07but I feel tremendous relief about that
02:01:11Supreme Court decision and I can maybe
02:01:13stop fighting despite many appeals
02:01:16Daniel continues to serve his original
02:01:18sentence of 52 years to life for the
02:01:21double murders with enhancements for the
02:01:23mutilation and torture Claudia and Chip
02:01:26through however because he was a
02:01:28juvenile when convicted he will be
02:01:30eligible for parole in
02:01:332037 in addition to speaking with the
02:01:35families of the victims Daniel Marsh was
02:01:38given the opportunity to participate in
02:01:40this project as well he declined the
02:01:42opportunity to be interviewed giving
02:01:46explanation I failed to see who this
02:01:48documentary would would benefit as all
02:01:50similar efforts that have come before it
02:01:51have to my knowledge only prolonged and
02:01:54even resurfaced the suffering of
02:01:56everyone I've Hur I'm not interested in
02:01:58amplifying that pain and exploitation by
02:02:01revisiting old traumas they've suffered
02:02:03through my
02:02:04actions ironically Daniel does not
02:02:07acknowledge the role his appeals may
02:02:08have played in dredging up past trauma
02:02:10for the victim's families we also had
02:02:13the opportunity to correspond with
02:02:15Daniel's fiance Catalina escalar she
02:02:19states that they're currently finalizing
02:02:20their marriage paperwork and that
02:02:22somehow despite Daniel's incarceration
02:02:25the majority of our time each day is
02:02:27spent together but didn't offer any
02:02:29details on how this is logistically
02:02:32possible in regard to how she and Daniel
02:02:35met she reports that they grew up in
02:02:37adjacent hometowns one has to wonder
02:02:40then if perhaps her house was one of the
02:02:42ones Daniel considered entering to
02:02:43commit his gruesome
02:02:45crime while contact with this unexpected
02:02:48couple was initially very professional
02:02:50correspondence was abruptly and
02:02:52unexpectedly severed by Catalina as soon
02:02:55as the existence of Daniel's contentious
02:02:57Ted Talk was
02:02:58mentioned no Catalina wrote We do not
02:03:01want to be a part of this as we both
02:03:03stated numerous times stop asking in
02:03:06what seems to be a direct contrast to
02:03:08how Daniel and Catalina view media
02:03:10involvement in the case Claudia's
02:03:13daughter Victoria says that she has
02:03:14embraced the opportunities to share her
02:03:16story and ensure that chip and cl are
02:03:19remembered as more than just
02:03:22victims it was about speaking to someone
02:03:24about it just like I'm speaking to you
02:03:27right I'm telling you the story again so
02:03:29when I when I leave this interview I
02:03:33know I'm gonna feel better I'm I'm
02:03:36telling you about my mom I'm telling you
02:03:39about my experience and you're
02:03:41listening and and then I I got to the
02:03:44point where I have to trust you or the
02:03:46media to give to their their listening
02:03:49Community I don't want to be the woman
02:03:51on you know the internet that said the
02:03:54murderer cut my mother's eyes out I
02:03:57don't want to say that and so in the
02:03:59beginning I was mad about that like this
02:04:01is the life that I have now but but that
02:04:05is the life that I have now so I have to
02:04:08deal with reality and I had to deal with
02:04:10incorporating that into my own life for
02:04:13Victoria Sarah Merida the rest of
02:04:15Claudia and Chip's family members and
02:04:17Daniel ze's girlfriend friend there is
02:04:20no forgetting there is only moving
02:04:22forward and healing in the face of the
02:04:25new reality that was forced upon them
02:04:28and as unfair as it is they may have to
02:04:31keep fighting to ensure that Justice
02:04:33continues to be served on behalf of the
02:04:36ewu team we would like to thank those
02:04:39who participated in interviews thank you
02:04:41to Victoria herd Sarah rice Merida
02:04:44Murray Robert norup and Daniel's
02:04:47ex-girlfriend for helping us provide a
02:04:49thorough and thoughtful study of this
02:04:52unfortunate tragedy
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FAQs about This YouTube Video

1. Who is Daniel Marsh and what is his story?

Daniel Marsh is a psychopathic killer who was initially known as a hero but later turned into a gruesome criminal. His story is a disturbing case of a young man with a twisted mind, and it raises questions about the factors that led to his depravity.

2. What are the crimes committed by Daniel Marsh?

Daniel Marsh committed gruesome crimes, including the brutal murder of an elderly couple. His actions were horrifying, and the details of the crimes showcase the extent of his psychopathy.

3. Was Daniel Marsh diagnosed as a psychopath?

Yes, Daniel Marsh was diagnosed as a psychopath, but the true extent of his depravity goes beyond the diagnosis. His case raises questions about the nature of psychopathy and the reasons behind his actions.

4. What are the reasons behind Daniel Marsh's actions?

The reasons behind Daniel Marsh's actions remain a mystery, and his case has sparked debates about the root causes of psychopathic behavior. Exploring this aspect can shed light on the complexities of criminal psychology.

5. Why does Daniel Marsh show no remorse for his crimes?

Daniel Marsh's lack of remorse for his gruesome crimes is a chilling aspect of his case. Understanding the factors that contribute to this lack of remorse can provide insights into the mindset of psychopathic individuals and the challenges of dealing with such cases.

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