Monica
💫 Summary
The video discusses the true story of the Penis Envy Mushroom, including its origins, effects, and the personal experiences of the speaker with psychedelics.
✨ Highlights📊 Transcript
This section introduces the sponsorship of the podcast by Lucy Nicotine and Top Tree Herbs, and the upcoming interview about the penis envy strain of psilocybin-containing mushrooms.
00:00
The podcast is now sponsored by Lucy Nicotine, a company that produces nicotine products.
Top Tree Herbs, an herbal tea company, is also mentioned as a sponsor.
The upcoming interview is about the penis envy strain of psilocybin-containing mushrooms, known for its unique appearance and potency.
The section discusses the discovery of cell division cycles and the penis envy mushroom, as well as the introduction of a wearable vibrating bracelet called Apollo for stress relief and mood modulation.
20:47
Leland Hartwell discovered cell division cycles and the penis envy mushroom.
The Apollo is a wearable vibrating bracelet that can modulate consciousness and has a calming or stimulating effect.
The device delivers gentle soothing vibrations to condition the nervous system and promote recovery and rebalance after stress.
The speaker discusses the disconnect between what their eyes see and what their brain perceives.
41:22
They mention that when they take a photo, their eyes see something that their brain doesn't.
They explain that they got shot in the jaw and the bullet is still inside.
They describe the experience of having a lot of lactic acid buildup in their muscles.
They mention that their brain never fully recovered.
The speaker shares his experience with the Penis Envy mushroom and how it had a strong effect on him.
01:22:42
The last time he ate the Penis Envy mushroom, everything appeared purple and black.
He mentions that he prefers eating Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms.
The speaker discovered that there was an entity attached to the Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms that would communicate with him.
He mentions instances where he would be guided towards finding mushrooms.
The speaker talks about how the bags of mushrooms crack open due to the abundance of mushrooms, the spores turning white, and a personal experience with finding the mushrooms.
01:43:25
The bags crack open due to the number of mushrooms inside.
The spores turn white.
The speaker shares a personal experience of finding the mushrooms.
The speaker's interest in growing mushrooms was for personal reasons, while the other person was solely interested in the money-making opportunity.
02:04:11
The speaker's acquaintance was focused on the financial aspect of growing mushrooms.
The speaker distanced themselves from the acquaintance when they tried to impose their ideas.
The acquaintance did not possess the knowledge or skills to grow mushrooms on their own.
The speaker kept the growing process going for their friends, while pursuing other interests.
The speaker discusses his belief that everything has its own volition and shares his experiences with different psychedelics.
02:24:47
Believes that everything, even a rock, has its own volition.
Not interested in other psychedelics besides psilocybin.
Has tried peyote and opium but did not like them.
Prefers not to use psychedelics and already has enough in his brain.
00:00hello this podcast is available  unedited and ad-free at patreon.com  
00:08hamilton morris each month i released three to  four new podcasts and it was patreon exclusive  
00:15until recently many people contacted me and  said they wanted me to figure out a way to make  
00:19it freely available and so i decided to accept  sponsorship from a few of my friends one of them  
00:25is david rentlin the founder of a company called  lucy nicotine they make nicotine gum nicotine  
00:31pouches nicotine lozenges some of which are made  with synthetic nicotine which i think is pretty  
00:36cool now if you don't already use nicotine i  recommend that you don't start it's habit forming  
00:45but if you already do use nicotine products and  especially if you smoke tobacco cigarettes i can  
00:51say that this is a cleaner product and it's also a  product that i use personally if you go to lucy.co  
00:59and use the code hamilton you get 20 off your  purchase lastly this podcast is brought to you  
01:05by top tree herbs an herbal tea company founded  by my friend and pharmacopia producer soren shade  
01:11this is not a traditional sponsorship and that  i'm not receiving any money from them but sorin  
01:15is actually a producer on this podcast they grow  their own kratom domestically in appalachia and  
01:20a greenhouse which is very beautiful and they  source leaves internationally do third party  
01:26testing i've been to the lab where they do the  testing they test for heavy metals and other  
01:30adulterants and it's ethically sourced in tea bag  form you can find their teas at toptreeherbs.com
01:38so this is an interview that i have been  preparing for hoping for waiting for  
01:46for no less than 14 years anyone who's interested  in psilocybin containing mushrooms is familiar  
01:57with the penis envy strain named because  it looks like a penis the penis envy strain  
02:08is according to many spore retailers the  best selling celosivi cubensis strain  
02:16it's a strain that's not only infamous for its  phthaloid morphology but also for its potency  
02:24there's a sort of saying that you often  encounter on mushroom forums like the shroomery  
02:29where someone will start a thread saying  i can get b-plus or treasure coast  
02:36or golden teacher which one should i  get what's the difference between them  
02:40and this is exacerbated by spore and mushroom  retailers that sometimes make non-evidence-based  
02:48claims about how this or that cellosibi  cubensis strain has this or that virtue  
02:55and what the seasoned growers on these forums  will always say is a cube is a cube meaning any  
03:03celosibee cubensis strain is more or less  interchangeable with any other cellosubi cubensis  
03:09strain but they always have one caveat that they  add a cube is a cube except for penis envy penis  
03:17envy is so much stronger and so different  from other strains of psilocybin cubensis  
03:23that it's almost treated like it's a different  species entirely and so the question emerges  
03:30where did this come from it's not naturally  occurring i have seen celeste b cubensis growing  
03:40all over the country all over the world i've  never seen one that looks so much like a penis  
03:47and just to be clear for anyone that hasn't seen  one this is a strain with a very very thick stem  
03:55and a very small cap the diameter of which is  more or less identical to that of the stem in  
04:03many instances the cap does not open the mushroom  does not effectively sporulate so it's clear that  
04:11this mutation is one that would be maladaptive  outside of human cultivation in the same way that  
04:18a french bulldog would be maladaptive outside  of human breeding because they have to be  
04:25born via caesarean section the same is basically  true of penis envy they have been bred in such  
04:31a way that their very reproductive mechanisms  of spore dispersal are attenuated one of the  
04:39first things i did when i was a young man becoming  interested in writing stories about psychedelics  
04:44was try to solve this mystery it seemed pretty  straightforward you've got a mushroom that looks  
04:50like a penis find out who created it it didn't  occur naturally someone made this thing they must  
04:59be proud of what they created track them down  talk to them about it find out where it came
05:05from there's a lot of discussion  on these forums about the various  
05:13mushroom pioneers people like terence  mckenna or dennis mckenna or pf and yet  
05:22i had difficulty finding an authoritative  explanation for how exactly this strain  
05:28emerged and really the only person who seemed  to have anything close to first-hand knowledge  
05:35was a mushroom fanatic named john allen  aka mj schroomer aka mushroom john
05:48mushroom john is infamous in the psychedelic  mushroom community he is a grapho maniac who has  
05:56posted thousands of times on virtually  every mushroom forum and also maintained  
06:02a personal website with thousands of photos of  mushrooms that he had observed around the world  
06:09he was the unofficial archivist for the world  of psilocybin containing mushrooms and if you  
06:16asked him a question no matter who you were you  would get a response what i came to learn was that  
06:22mushroom john's eagerness to communicate was  complicated john allen actually misled me  
06:33intentionally by his own admission and at that  time i was more credulous less critical less  
06:41skeptical in general and i wrote this sort of  ridiculous article for vice that was published  
06:47in early 2009 and it gave what was ultimately a  false history of the penis envy mushroom strain
06:56in this article i uncritically repeat a lot of  the outlandish claims that mushroom john had  
07:02presented to me as well as hearsay from various  forums and probably a fair bit of confabulation  
07:07on top of that i was trying to piece together  these fragmented components of a narrative  
07:14that had never been published in any kind of  historical literature where did it come from  
07:20pollock was maybe involved mckenna was involved  and then there was one other person named rich  
07:27g a pseudonym for a mysterious mycologist  named richard gutierrez it was clear what i  
07:35had to do i had to find rich g and i had to ask  him personally where this mushroom came from he  
07:43was the only person that truly knew the problem  was that rich g didn't talk to anybody he had  
07:50last been interviewed in may of 1998 now more than  23 years ago he doesn't talk to people he doesn't  
07:58exist on the internet he is in the words of the  only other outsider to ever interview him a shadow
08:10what i knew about rich g was derived in part from  the strange anecdotes i'd heard from mushroom  
08:16growers and mushroom john but largely came from a  pseudonymously authored article in a now defunct  
08:23seattle newspaper called voltage written by  somebody named linton robinson under the pseudonym  
08:30rob poole and the story presented in this article  was almost too strange to be believed it told the  
08:38story of a trained botanist and geneticist who  had been shot in the head and had gained a psychic  
08:47connection to mushrooms this psychic connection  allowed him to achieve feats of cultivation and  
08:54genetic manipulation that otherwise would  have been impossible now that's a story
09:02i looked everywhere for rich g i called every  richard gutierrez in seattle couldn't find him  
09:09and if i did i doubt he would have talked to me  i never stopped every time i encountered somebody  
09:16who might know something about mushrooms any elder  in the mushroom community i would say do you know  
09:22richard gutierrez and if they did they would  often say sorry he's not going to talk to you  
09:31but i didn't give up in august of 2015  i went to seattle to search for him  
09:39i knew that he sold mushroom grow kits at a head  shop called pipe place in pike place market the  
09:47same place where the original starbucks is located  when i arrived at pipe place i said that i was  
09:55interested in the history of the penis envy strain  and i wanted to speak with richard gutierrez  
10:01the person working at the counter gave me a  knowing look and they said they couldn't help me  
10:09i asked if i could leave a note for richard  gutierrez they said they couldn't stop me and  
10:14so i did apparently he came in moments  after i'd left but he never called me  
10:20even his books were tremendously difficult to find  he'd authored two books one in 1976 with the title  
10:28how to identify and grow psilocybin mushrooms  and another in 1995 called cubensis aquarium  
10:36gardening the latter publication was especially  interesting to me because the cover prominently  
10:43featured a photograph of a mushroom strain that  could clearly be identified as the progenitor of  
10:49what we now call penis envy long before the name  had ever been used publicly but even that book was  
10:56impossible to find the only known copy was in  the possession of john allen and he refused to  
11:02show it to me i went to john allen's apartment to  plead with him to ask him to let me see this book
11:12we did an interview i tried to extract whatever  information i could and then out of the corner  
11:17of my eye i saw it on the bookshelf the comb  bound rarest of rare mushroom books cubensis  
11:27aquarium gardening i went over to his bookshelf  and i quickly read the book cover to cover  
11:33it said nothing about penis envy but it was  clear that was it the first images of penis envy  
11:40published in a book by richard  gutierrez he was clearly the creator
11:47in his 1976 book he described selling an amazon  cubensis strain this is supposedly derived from  
11:54celosibee cubensis collected by terence  mckenna in the amazon in his infamous trip  
12:00with his brother dennis mckenna so let me just  take a step back quickly into the history of  
12:07psilocybin mushroom cultivation we live in a  very privileged time when it comes to mushrooms  
12:15it's been taken for granted my entire life  that mushrooms can be cultivated at all  
12:22but when you take a step back to the  1960s when psychedelics are first becoming  
12:30culturally important commodities it was a  very different scene psychedelic luminaries  
12:38like timothy leary could travel to mexico and  try mushrooms but that was about it believe it  
12:43or not people didn't realize that psilocybin  containing mushrooms grew in the united states  
12:50this was something that was discovered long after  watson's trip to oaxaca to meet maria sabina  
12:58on top of that even when people did  know that they grew in the united states  
13:02that was only something that was available to a  small number of people in the pacific northwest  
13:07and maybe texas what about the average person what  about someone living in new york city how could  
13:13they get psilocybin containing mushrooms would  it be possible for somebody to cultivate them  
13:19we take this completely for granted but it  was actually dennis mckenna who first adapted  
13:26laboratory techniques for the cultivation of fungi  and published a book with his brother in 1975  
13:34that detailed exactly how psilocybin containing  mushrooms could be cultivated by the amateur  
13:40and that set off a revolution in 1976  and 1977 an enormous number of new  
13:49books about mushroom cultivation were  published and the art rapidly evolved  
13:54by the time i was in high school you could buy  spores and spore syringes and grow kits on the  
14:02internet and high school students would grow  mushrooms under their bed in their parents house  
14:09this was just something you could do if you  needed help you could find support on a variety  
14:14of different mushroom forums but it was not  like that in the 1970s i'm very interested in  
14:20this early era i'm interested in the scientific  contributions and i'm really interested in people  
14:26that take complicated laboratory techniques and  make them simpler and simpler and the evolution  
14:33is continuous the uncle ben tech shows that  you can make mushroom cultivation even easier  
14:40than it was a few years ago it keeps getting  better people keep improving and i love that  
14:46but i yearned to understand the origins  of the penis envy and i knew that richard  
14:51gutierrez was the only person who  could tell me where it came from
14:57finally i met someone who knew him a family member  and she offered to put me in touch i received an  
15:04email from richard gutierrez and he told me that  if i shared it with anyone he would delete it  
15:10and we'd never speak again we had some exchanges  and eventually he invited me to seattle to meet  
15:17with him i got on the plane immediately i brought  microphones and a recorder and this is the sort of  
15:25thing actually the patreon has been wonderful for  because in the past i might have thought twice but  
15:30this made it clear i've got to do this and  he was a little bit tricky to interview he  
15:38didn't want to speak into the microphone he  wanted to speak very quietly i was recording  
15:43with three microphones you'll find that the audio  quality is a little bit inconsistent so forgive me  
15:49for that but i think the story that emerges  is one that is very unusual and fascinating
15:58many people who are scientifically oriented like  myself are also atheist agnostic materialists who  
16:05don't really have much of what could be called  spirituality i'm of course a great believer in  
16:11the power of psychedelics and i believe that  the human mind can do extraordinary things  
16:18but i don't ever attribute  them to the supernatural
16:24i'm always amazed by scientists that don't think  the way i think scientists that are religious that  
16:30believe in god that believe in the supernatural  these two belief systems seem incompatible to me  
16:36but clearly that's not the case richard gutierrez  is a prime example he's somebody who has all  
16:46sorts of supernatural beliefs remote viewing  telekinesis he has psychic abilities he claims  
16:56to be able to communicate with other species  and the origin of this story is quite remarkable  
17:03as a 10 year old he was shot in the face  accidentally by his uncle and brother  
17:09he almost bled to death partially due  to racial discrimination in the 1950s  
17:16and without adequate medical care he had a case  of lactic acidosis so severe that he believes  
17:22he suffered irreparable brain damage he also  believes that he died and when he was revived  
17:31he never fully re-entered the world of the living  he remained with one foot in the world of the dead  
17:38for 16 years literally accompanied by death  quite remarkable and unusual by my standards  
17:46during this time he got a degree in botany and  began working at an incredibly prestigious lab  
17:53at the university of washington studying yeast  replication with leland hartwell and believe it or  
18:02not the research that richard gutierrez was doing  with hartwell truly was the basis of a nobel prize  
18:11because this was research that was used to uncover  the mechanism of cell division i mean this is  
18:18work so fundamental that it's almost taken for  granted again i even contacted leland hartwell now  
18:2681 years old the nobel laureate and he responded  promptly and he said dear hamilton that was a long  
18:33time ago richard worked as a student helper he  was bright enthusiastic and a wonderful person  
18:39to have in the lab i didn't tell dr hartwell  that richard gutierrez invented one of the most  
18:48notorious strains of psilocybin containing  mushrooms one that looks like a penis but  
18:55i would like to think that he would appreciate  it on some level knowing that his research helped  
19:01inform a young man to strive to new heights of  genetic manipulation he created not just a penis  
19:08mushroom but even a mushroom with a urinary  meatus a penis envy strain with a penis hole
19:18astonishing i had fantasies i imagined  gutierrez working in the darkness for years  
19:27breeding strain after strain burning the ones  that didn't look sufficiently like a penis  
19:34but that's not exactly how it happened the  real story is remarkable in its own way he  
19:40was selecting for bluing one of the wonderful  things about psilocybin compared to something  
19:47like masculine is you can actually visually  detect the alkaloid concentration in the  
19:53mushroom in a way that isn't possible with many  other organisms you can't look at a peyote cactus  
19:58and know how much mescaline is in it but you can  touch a mushroom and based on the severity of the  
20:04bruising you can estimate the silicon content now  i wouldn't say this is anywhere near quantitative  
20:10but apparently it doesn't need to be because he  was tremendously successful using this technique  
20:16i think it was my fascination with gutierrez that  led me to the pollock story and so many other  
20:23interesting stories in my career and so i feel  very close to him even though we've never met  
20:28before this is a strange story i am leaving it  almost uncut pardon the pun because i want you to  
20:38have a feeling for how strange this conversation  was it is equal parts spiritual mystical  
20:47and scientific but behind it all are two very  real discoveries leland hartwell's discovery  
20:54of cell division cycles and the penis envy  mushroom both are real and that much is certain
21:04the rest of it i'll leave that up to you i'm going  to pause momentarily for an ad this podcast is  
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21:19to be able to modulate your consciousness  and when i first heard about this thing i  
21:23was very skeptical i was at a conference and met a  psychiatrist and neuroscientist named david rabin  
21:29and he had built this prototype and let me wear  it for a night during the entire night i felt very  
21:36calm and euphoric and good and i thought okay well  maybe this is just placebo but i also told him  
21:42that if he ever built more of them i'd  really like to try it again so he sent me one  
21:47and now i've used it for hundreds of hours it's  a very versatile wearable device that they are  
21:53selling for stress relief but you can modulate  the frequency of the vibrations to create either a  
22:00stimulating or calming effect you can actually  sleep wearing it and it seems to help sleep or  
22:05you can change the frequency and it has a  sort of stimulating effect which i sometimes  
22:10use while i'm on a long drive i've tried a lot  of these different non-pharmacological means  
22:14for alteration of consciousness like binaural  beats and various types of stroboscopic visual  
22:19stimulation usually i'm skeptical of this sort  of thing but this tactile modulation of mood  
22:24actually does seem to work the idea being  that it delivers a gentle soothing vibration  
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23:20well my tendency is not to speak very  loudly okay i can't even turn up the  
23:24you know do you mind well you know
23:30mushroom john
23:33has friends but you talk to him a year later year  after that he doesn't have friends because um  
23:41he just can't shut his mouth for one thing  yeah i don't know if you're recording or  
23:45not yeah i just started recording  or i'm telling i'm testing this  
23:49well i met mushroom john on the streets of seattle  picking mushrooms and we would drive around  
23:58and he'd be hanging on to some corner post  at an intersection and there's really no  
24:03place he wouldn't go he'd jump your fence  anywhere there were mushrooms he was there
24:10and so um
24:13we found out that he was  writing a book on mushrooms and  
24:17i had already started before  then writing a book on mushrooms
24:22but
24:26actually between that time that i knew him in the  in the coming of the peas i didn't really see him  
24:33he was in uh hawaii for a while and i happened to  talk to somebody in hawaii and they said do you  
24:39know mushroom john and i said yeah well they put  him on the phone and i couldn't get rid of that  
24:45guy and i went to affair with my girlfriend and he  wanted to know where we were and he he won't shut  
24:50up and so like i went to there and i told him i  was there and we left to go somewhere else because  
24:55we didn't want him you know we were wanting to  be together so anyway he has this he says he's  
25:01got this problem um clinical problem where he has  to talk and talk about everything all the time  
25:10and so i was on a minibus in thailand going to  cambodia 16-hour trip he never stopped talking  
25:18to the girl next to him she was done with  him in 10 minutes but he never stopped for  
25:2316 hours talking to her and her boyfriend said  does this train ever stop because it doesn't  
25:29so you can only tolerate so much of that and  he'll ask you a question and he'll interrupt  
25:34you and give you your own answer he's not into  sharing anything it's got to be his life like  
25:39he's a lot like trump he's got to be trump it's  got to be mushroom john i went with him to uh  
25:45cam cambodia thailand and every time i looked  at my camera he stuck his face in front of it
25:52yeah i believe it he's a character yes he's  a character but in mushroom john's defense  
25:59as nutty as he is he is a font of knowledge  for a lot of people especially young people  
26:06on the shrimmery things like that of course he  got into horrible trouble and was banned and  
26:11oh really i didn't communicated and from the  shroomry yeah and then he tried to call the  
26:16fbi on them and it was yeah it didn't even the  entire forum ended up in a uh argument with him  
26:21most funny thing that's kind of what happened  to me he uh threatened me by saying that he  
26:27talked to his son and daughter into  calling the fbi making up stories about  
26:31wholesale drugs that are hanging all over my house  so i could get arrested and go to jail forever oh  
26:37that's nice so he's not allowed anywhere  near me that's terrible yeah i yeah he's a  
26:44i don't i don't know what's  uh what's wrong with him
26:48he has it has to be about himself when when  it isn't you see a different side of him  
26:53right and you know i i went to thailand with  him and i have a certain tolerance level and  
27:00i went to cambodia with him and uh but it  was two trips to thailand cambodia and then  
27:03i went to amsterdam with him and when he's  around people that he admires he'll shut up
27:14and he'll listen and that's the thing about  like this book guards guards would listen to him  
27:21and a lot of what mushroom john  knows is other people's stuff  
27:25that's been done by other people but he knows  he's read it and so he can regurgitate it  
27:30but so he does have a lot of information to  share but as a scientist he's not much of a  
27:35scientist he doesn't know much about science he  doesn't understand what he's seeing a lot of times  
27:42but he's has been hanging around a lot of nice  guys people who know what they're talking about  
27:47so he's got a lot of good information but my  feeling is that mushroom john started this whole  
27:53problem with the pes what people don't realize  is when terence was in the amazon he didn't bring  
27:59back a pe he brought him amazon strain back that's  all he did he brought amazon strains of mushrooms  
28:07i don't think i have ever met terence mckenna  personally i think i would remember it  
28:12and so between me and terence mckenna there's no  connection at all but in your early books you were  
28:21selling an amazonian strain do you know what the  origin correct yeah so what was the origin of that  
28:27okay so some things that i'm going to  say to you you probably don't want to  
28:32regurgitate the same way you might want  to soften them up a bit okay okay so um
28:40you know when you go to bar you might ask  like you know we're gonna get some pot  
28:46bartender usually knows they're known for that  
28:50uh i have a friend who with a hair stylist  same idea one haircut wants a pot same deal  
28:57well he knew a lot of people because of that one  day he knocks at my house because my neighbor  
29:03knew i was going to be writing a book and he  knew somebody had written the marijuana books  
29:09the first one's about growing marijuana  marijuana under lights and so um
29:18while we were writing the book we  uh ended up getting a hold of some  
29:24juventus earl from florida and so we started  selling the spores of those mushrooms  
29:31now one day he shows up and he's picked up  another mushroom and that was the amazon strain  
29:39so what happened was this is your bartender friend  no hair sandwich stylist friend yeah but i'm using  
29:47that as a reference you know you see on tv you go  to the bartender if you want some drugs well this  
29:53hairstylist were in the same position back in the  70s and 80s yeah and so anyway uh he knew a lot  
30:00of people and he knew a lot of places people in  high places and low places and so anyway one day  
30:04he shows up with this dry mushroom and it's an  amazon and he said that it came from a pound of  
30:11mushrooms that had been bought by a friend of his  and that friend of his had got him in california  
30:20and he was told that they were direct descendants  of mushrooms from terence mckenna i don't know  
30:25if they were office prince or somebody else's  prince from his this was 1975 something like that
30:36your book came out in 76 the  first no it wasn't then um
30:42well the naming of the amazons happened  uh about 87 88 that's when they became pe  
30:4987 or 88 and that was because i named them that  but we did sell prints of an amazon mushroom  
30:57like i said supposedly it came from some of  
31:00terence mckenna's prints we didn't get a  print we got a little dry mushroom right okay  
31:08so everybody talks about terence mckenna finding  the pe well they didn't exist to be found of  
31:15course yeah and so by the time i mushroom john  i already had 10 years of lab work under my belt  
31:20from the university of washington working genetics  i worked in a hospital i did lab work in my sleep  
31:26and so i could i can grow anything i can go to the  store and get any mushroom off the shelf and i can  
31:30pretty much grow it i don't need to know  anything i've got so much science behind me  
31:35and that's where john and i differ a lot is you  know i've got the training and he's kind of just  
31:40picked it up from other people to sell scorpions  of those borders we have to get some generated  
31:46and so jules stephens the other person in  the book he picked up a octagonal fish tank  
31:53made out of plexiglass and i actually ran  across that picture before i talked to you  
31:57and then i lost at the end it's somewhere in  my photos it's a picture of that tank with  
32:02the three uh strains of mushrooms in it and so  when the spores were taken they were plated out  
32:10they were grown in rye berries and  then planted in this terrarium aquarium
32:15and the two strains one and two were normal  looking you know little mushrooms as big as  
32:22your fingers but strain number three there  were a couple of really funky mushrooms  
32:28with their heads bent over and  a whole bunch of little boards
32:36and i looked at the aborts and i said wow  
32:38that's a strong mushroom because  the aborts were were like blue black
32:47and so let's just wait for this
32:53side's ears
32:59now
33:02most of my science has been under a microscope  one of my jobs was to take a pipette  
33:07where you pick up water with and stretch the  end to infinity and put it in this gadget and  
33:13then i look through the microscope find the end  of that pipette in the microscope lowered it on  
33:18to the auger where there were yeast cells  and they had just made it so they were four  
33:23basically miniature yeasts inside each one so  i'd have to crack the wrapper and take those four  
33:28yeast individuals and line them in a line i could  do that without with my eyes closed and this was  
33:36using the tip of the pipette to manipulate the  individual it's called micro manipulation so  
33:41this was a three year project and i got it done in  six months because i i know my science and so um
33:51when i looked at those aborts usually when  people take something like that they want  
33:56it to be strong so they can take a little bit  but they can take a lot because it's wrong and
34:04knowing my friends i knew what they're looking  for so why fool around with the ordinary ones that  
34:09everybody has and so here's these funky ones and  the reason their necks are bent over is because  
34:16they have bad genetics and the reason there's  somebody aboard to because it's got bad genetics  
34:21the pe mushroom is born of bad genetics now  we did grow the other strains and those got  
34:27sold as amazons because it took a while  to get the genetics to work on that one  
34:33so the next level after that uh one of the  little stick mushrooms that was plated out  
34:40and the mycelium was really  blowing and so that was growing out  
34:45and had the same problem there was a  few little mushrooms and a lot of aborts
34:51so after about the fifth time of doing that  the mushrooms started getting to be normal  
34:56but because of the bad genetics they don't tend  to make a lot of spores and if they do this boards  
35:02don't tend to come off the caps they tend to stick  to the caps and it's hard to get a good print  
35:07and if you do get a good print a lot of the sports  aren't viable and so to keep that mushroom going  
35:15every two or three or four months you'd  have to go back to spores bring it bring  
35:19it back from the dead and start a new strain  and that happened over 20 years regularly
35:27and so the deal with them is is uh  the genetic defect makes them stronger  
35:37but they're physically weaker and that's why  a lot of times they're really flippy fobby  
35:43but knowing science you can take bad genetics  and you can correct them a little bit  
35:50and so we intuitively knew which mushrooms  to clone to keep the same thing going  
35:58and there there ended up being a stocky  one that was straight always straight  
36:02with a fairly big head that didn't open and  then there was another one that kind of was  
36:06a floppy stem long stem but it had like a  uh like a sleeping cap from the 80s it was  
36:13like the truck the pioneers used to wear  those crossing the country and the wagons  
36:17these floppy little hats on their heads the  women did and um so those are strains that we  
36:24kept going and so the tall straight one would  generate both strains and the one that floppy  
36:30headed one would generate both strains so we just  keep switching back and forth to keep it alive  
36:36and the babies of those strains to my  knowledge ended about two years ago  
36:43there's no more of those the original strain  from the very first one in the fish tank to  
36:49now consecutively had been grown in seattle until  about two years ago what happened two years ago  
36:55um a friend of mine left town because he  got himself in a little bit of trouble  
37:01and he left some prince with a roommate of  his who knows nothing about about science  
37:09and they were already old and any caps older  than like six months to a year were hard to uh  
37:17get anything to grow out of and so  these were already two years old  
37:21and i know because uh the last time i pulled  them back from the brink was on those prints  
37:27and it took a lot of work to get them back  and so uh to my knowledge that line has ended  
37:32not available anymore that's tragic i i know where  there's some prince but the prince was so old that  
37:40it would take a lot of science to  bring him from the back you should try  
37:44well i just happened to be in a situation where  
37:47my girlfriend knows all about my past and she's  okay with it but she's on a different path and so  
37:57so basically uh you know the other  thing is i used to have a farm so  
38:00people throw stuff out in the backyard  all the time i don't have that option  
38:06and uh one of the reasons that the peas got to be  what they are was actually the food we fed them
38:15you can feed them just about anything  but if you're feeding right food  
38:18they'll get 10 12 18 inches tall  
38:24and what was that other than rye berries no  uh the actual growing medium wasn't vibrating
38:34and uh i actually built some composters that would  compost the manure in uh seven to ten days instead  
38:40of the three or four months and that's the stuff  you put it on your garden it would be gone by  
38:45springtime because it was like sugar to the plants  they just stayed it up remember i told you about  
38:50my hair styling friend you know everybody  well this guy bumped into a house angel guy  
38:56and the south angels guy he's worked for the city  and going back to the chips and his job was to go  
39:05down the power lines and chip all the trees under  him because they don't want him in the power lines  
39:10and so he would take the wood chips home and so  back in the old days they would throw everything  
39:16in the garbage including green stuff and so it got  so expensive that they started chipping everything  
39:22and throwing it back into their bushes here  in the arboretum and so there were hundreds  
39:27of pounds of cyanescence in the sabrina every  year this hells angel guy he called my friend  
39:33jules stephens and he wanted to know what these  mushrooms were in his backyard jewel stevens went  
39:38over there and he and his friend picked 75 pounds  we can go back over this and then i went to take  
39:44pictures of them and i helped them pick a hundred  or nine to five ninety five pounds and after that  
39:50to pick like another seventy five pounds and he  just could you'll see this but could go in over  
39:54there and get tired of picking up work and there  were hundreds of pounds of these in this backyard  
39:58you couldn't put your feet anywhere you'd step  on them you didn't kneel down to try to take a  
40:03picture luckily had a couple of cement pads laying  around wow now this is how it used to be in here  
40:10and so that's why everybody comes to the arbor  to pick mushrooms but now there aren't any  
40:15those are amazing photos well these were taken  i don't know uh and here's some biosisters this  
40:21wasn't from here i was growing them in a box and  this is what i learned to grow first time essence  
40:28wow you said you were throwing away a lot of  your photos or something why would you do that  
40:32well i'm kind of a perfectionist  but i'm also um hyperactive and so
40:42usually i'm doing two or three things at  once so when i'm taking photos people are  
40:46talking behind my ears they're getting in my way  getting in the light and so i take a lot of poke  
40:52photos from different angles to make  sure that i get some good photos yeah  
40:57because it's not unusual for me to get  a thousand bad photos but the next time  
41:01get a thousand perfectly clear photos that  nothing wrong with it and that has to do a  
41:06little bit with the brain problem i have i  was an accident when i was 10 years old and
41:14my friend my my body died so my brain  died and so there are some things that  
41:22my brain can't wrap itself around at my eyes see  and vice versa and so when i take a photo i don't  
41:31really see what i'm taking a picture of my eyes  see what my brain doesn't see so until i print  
41:36them and take them outside and look at them in the  sun i don't really know what pictures i've taken  
41:42i'm not sure i understand if you look at that  tree you'll see a tree right yeah i can look at  
41:48that tree and take a picture of it and my eyes  see the tree but my brain doesn't see the tree  
41:56do you see you see i see it right  now but that's not always the case  
42:00it's um do you know what part of  your brain was hit by the bullet
42:06i got shot in the jaw i was in the jaw it  was heading toward my spinal cord yeah but um  
42:13and actually they cut me here to  dig it out but it's still in there  
42:16you know what the deal was was i had lost  most of my blood at the accident and then  
42:23we have to drive with the town which took  half an hour while i was bleeding and then
42:29they had just cleaned the hospital  and i got it all dirty with my blood  
42:33so they put me in a room and  back and they never came back
42:39and so when they did come back it was dead already
42:45so anyway
42:48if you've ever been in sports like i was
42:55when you run like a sprint you hardly breathe and  
42:58you just go full gallop when you run  too fast and too much you get a lot of  
43:03lactic acid buildup in your muscles  because it went into anaerobic oxidation  
43:09and so you can tell that your muscles haven't been  been getting enough oxygen well when i woke up
43:21i had so much lactic acid that it felt  like somebody lit me on fire and so
43:30my brain it's like my eyelashes  hurt my teeth my bones hurt
43:37because i'm just saturated with lactic acid  and so in essentially my brain never came back
43:49and so
43:51you know it makes me sound sad right now i'm  not really sad it's actually a form of anger  
44:00could you tell me about what happened well  yeah but this particular thing it was uh  
44:05it was an accident hunting accident
44:10you know there's all these newfangled guns  out there you can shoot 20 bullets with one  
44:15click back in the old days it wasn't like that it  was more like pioneer days and so uh ammunition  
44:22wasn't reliable guns weren't reliable you know  they didn't have the then they didn't make them  
44:29with the instruments they do today and so it would  be possible that you put a bullet in the gun and  
44:35shoot and nothing happens so now you got  a live bullet in the chamber and you can't  
44:42just leave it so you get you know back then  it was bolt action it wasn't even the pumps  
44:47and so anyway you have to open the chamber to  let the bullet out and so what happens is the  
44:53pin has already hit the back of the cartridge  it's just nothing happened you open the bridge  
44:59and one of three things will happen the  bullet will pop out along with the cartridge  
45:06it'll blow up in your face or it'll shoot out  the end so my older brother and my my uncle  
45:14were playing with the rifle trying to decide  what to do with it and they opened the breach  
45:19and i just happened to be in line sight  oh no and so it came out the front  
45:27but that's not what makes me angry is uh
45:35people think that i'm sad when i sound like  this i'm not sad and what makes me angry is that  
45:43the nurse was more well you know  i grew up in a very racist town
45:51and so the nurse was mad at me for getting blood  all over her floor and so that caused my death  
45:59and so when i walked in i said to  myself wow i made it i'm all alive  
46:03what town was this eastern washington i mean  you go to the south it's not any different  
46:08when i was at the hospital i mean i walked into my  own power but when they shut the door in the back  
46:15i knew i was gonna die i mean i've always  known things like that and i did die
46:22but i wasn't afraid of dying  and that didn't matter to me
46:27so really what why i'm reading  when i'm here is my willpower
46:33something unusual happens to my body where  
46:36it just slows down to almost nothing so like my  wife used to poke me all the time say you know  
46:40raise the breath or like wake up are you alive  because my my body can slow down so low that  
46:48you won't see me breathing or anything  but i'm fully aware so anyway um
46:58in this little town if they round over you it's no  big deal you know just like you're like an animal  
47:02just like in the south it's not a big deal  if they run you over you know you're not them  
47:07and what year was that 1959 you don't have  that kind of pain after an accident unless  
47:14something really bad happens so when you watch a  movie and the good guy gets shot three times and  
47:19five minutes later he's got a gun back on his  shooting and marching forward that doesn't happen
47:26you get hit by anything hard enough  you're not getting up it hurts too much  
47:30it takes a lot of will but anyway  
47:36um we've always known this we're hispanic so we're  part spain we come from border areas of mexico and  
47:45the us so we're in indian because  there's indians on both sides and
47:54well we thought um we thought that uh our  grandmother was german and my uncle said  
48:02that we might have a little french in us six  years ago find out that we're actually apache
48:12and so my grandmother is full-blooded apache and  we think that my father is full-blooded kickaboo
48:22and so what what really happened is
48:26late in the 1870s i forget when  in the 1870s president grant  
48:31signed an execution order for  the apaches to exterminate them
48:38and so the apaches were already  hanging out near the missions  
48:43and most of them have been given mexican names and  so they became mexicans so they wouldn't be killed  
48:51and then uh so we always thought we were mexicans  so later on my grandfather comes along and zapata  
49:03is going down the border killing europeans
49:09because uh some they're in a fight with mexico and  so the is going down the border killing europeans  
49:19and so my grandfather is supposedly german  
49:23and had to become a mexican to avoid being killed  by zapata who is he's a great uh mexican hero  
49:32soldier and so so that's why we never  knew what we were until recently  
49:40and then uh we've done some genetic stuff  and it shows on there the indians in there  
49:46plus uh in the middle of all this my sister uh  posted a picture of facebook of our grandmother  
49:53and this apache guy sends a link  back and says uh that's my aunt
50:00and so he's the head of the uh uh  
50:05eastern apache driver not trying grecia clan  we're not part of the apache tribe so uh the only  
50:15interesting thing about that whole thing is when  i was growing up is there's something in spanish  
50:21whatever history where you can give  somebody the evil eye especially little kids  
50:27you stare at them and they get evil eye and they  get colicky and they get sick and so you hire  
50:32somebody or have somebody come and remove the  evil eye usually they rub an egg all over you  
50:36and do incantations and if it works then you're  okay so my grandmother used to do that stuff  
50:43which doesn't sound very christian  because we're actually christians
50:48and so uh my grandfather supposedly  could see the future a bit  
50:55and for me i'm part of some of that too but
51:05you know there's uh there's a  movie called the princess bride  
51:12where where the prince is poisoned so he's  gonna die so they take him to the sorcerer  
51:19to heal him and the guy doesn't want to do it  and finally he admits well you know he's only 99  
51:24dead you know we might be able to bring him back  and so that's kind of where i ended up he was like  
51:30i was like 99 dead but when i came back  it's like my foot got stuck in the door  
51:38and so i was neither totally alive  nor totally dead for 16 years
51:55now that's not an easy  concept to comprehend but um
52:04when i was uh you know six to ten years old we  lived in a house and it happened to have a ghost  
52:10and it happened to be in our bedroom and so i  don't know for about six years i go to bed and  
52:18the guy that ghost pokes me all night long what  sort of a ghost well from what i can think of is  
52:25uh it was a man and he had done something really  bad but really horribly bad and they killed him  
52:32what do you think he had done well whatever it  was it was really bad and so anyway he was taking  
52:38out his frustrations on anybody who went in that  house and after we moved out a six-year 16 year  
52:44old girl hung herself in the basement where the  ghost was oh wow this is in washington yeah yeah  
52:50other side of the mountains yeah and so  since i've always been attuned to that  
52:58when i died because of the accident it was like  um the door was open i can be over there over here  
53:06and so in the daytime i'd be  here in the nighttime i'd be dead
53:11and so every night i would leave my body and go  
53:13to the other side remember i mentioned  after projection out of body stuff but
53:26there was a period of time when  ever all my family was afraid of me  
53:30and that my the relatives of my family because
53:37nobody can explain to you the place where i was  
53:41and so when i was attending university i went to  a psychologist and i told him about it he said  
53:45you know make another appointment you know  talk about it obviously something's happening  
53:50well i realized he didn't know anything so  i'm walking down the street walked by his  
53:55bookstore and there's a book teachings  of don juan yaki way of knowledge  
54:01and i picked it up read it myself it's more  like what i'm doing but it was all about sorcery
54:09and so i learned to do some of  the sorcery it wasn't that hard  
54:12and then uh one day i walked down the street  again and looked in that same bookstore and  
54:16there's another book journey is out of  the body this is by a banker back east  
54:21and i read that book and say oh this is more like  what i'm doing which is out of body stuff and so
54:31the story only gets crazier but the  reason i know where i was is because oh
54:43every house i've lived in there's been ghosts or  egos and they generally leave me alone and but  
54:49they don't leave my roommates alone so anyway um  they basically poke me all the time they're always  
54:56one coming to see what's going on so this went on  for 16 years then at the end of 16 years i quit  
55:05and the reason it quit is because i became  alive enough that they realized i was alive  
55:11the ghosts so the reason they're bugging me is  because they see me over there and they don't know  
55:16what i'm doing there because i don't look  dead but they don't look alive either and so
55:25what would happen is um i'd be  walking down the street at night  
55:28like going home from school and i'd look to my  right and death would be walking with me now death  
55:35people think well when you die that's  death if i shoot you that's death  
55:40if you're dead let's form a death but  they don't understand the reaper thing  
55:49and so and when you say death do you mean the grim  reaper well i'm getting into that okay um like i  
55:56was talking about the princess bride about the guy  only being 90 99 dead that's kind of where i was  
56:02there's a lot of different different levels of  dying some people you shoot them and they die  
56:06automatically and sometimes you shouldn't full  holes and they still won't die but anyway um
56:16i knew i was i knew where i was because  death would talk to me all the time  
56:20now if you read this teachings with don  juan he talks about death as an advisor  
56:25that's what walked with me and we talked  about living and dying and and uh in 1967  
56:34was the last time i saw death and  he came by and we talked for a bit  
56:37actually we didn't talk we just walked for a  bin he looks at me and says i'm not here for you  
56:42and that's the last time i saw death no
56:48what did death look like
56:53imagine i put you over here you're all in black  so you have a form right you're three-dimensional
57:01now that meg imagine your three-dimensional form  
57:05is totally planed black so nothing but black you  still have three-dimensional form okay so he was
57:16like you and me but it looked like he was  wearing a cape like uh like in robin hood  
57:21really throw that cape with the prior fire  priest you know have those capes with a hat  
57:27it looked like he was kind of wearing one of those  kind of like in the cartoons in the movies and uh  
57:35but if the black the blackness was an  absence it wasn't it wasn't three-dimensional  
57:41fullness it was three-dimensional  absence there was nothingness  
57:47it was just a big void of nothing but when he  looked at you you could tell he was looking at you  
57:52and when you when he spoke you could hear  him so i don't understand why people die  
57:59and just go away i don't know why the green meat  becomes takes some people but obviously he does
58:10but for me he just gave me information
58:14and so
58:17when i ate that first mushroom it kind of  
58:22made the connection between the dying part  and the living part more real it's like um
58:31i've never been comfortable anywhere on earth  
58:36i've been a lot of places but i know i  don't belong here and it's probably because  
58:44once you've gone over here it's like google it's  tagged you it knows where you are all the time  
58:50it's got its eye on you but until death looks  at you you're just another clown over here  
58:56doing your thing but this is like it's kind  of like uh you're okay until the lion sees you  
59:04and once he sees you now you're in trouble  because you're gonna look at him and you're gonna  
59:07look back now you gotta deal with him that's kind  of how death is you know it doesn't go away so 16  
59:14years after being shot in the head you you had a  continuous relationship with death and then after  
59:2116 years you tried a psilocybin containing  mushroom and that was what broke this spell  
59:25no i i ate some mushrooms before that okay so what  happened at 16 years it made you more alive um
59:36actually um
59:40if you look at journeys out of the body uh  it's talking about this banker who goes out in  
59:45to out there and uh he encounters this  one zone where those critters or stuff  
59:51that kind of attached to you or by  you and stuff which i've never seen  
59:55and then you can explore anywhere  you want um a good example is uh
01:00:04the most recent probably uh yeah  already 30 years ago but recent for me  
01:00:12see i've been here a long time and i  have regressed all the way to before  
01:00:19all the way to the time where this planet  was a rocky planet there wasn't nothing here  
01:00:23but i was here and so are you  guys everybody's here but anyway
01:00:36i discovered through traveling in the outer body  
01:00:41more about what's happening in that  i've always been really curious  
01:00:46i've never really stayed home i'm always running  around i'm insatiably curious and so anyway  
01:00:52uh when i first started i would just pop out of my  body enough to see the other side and what's the  
01:01:00other side look just like this it's just that  you're in a different space in the other side  
01:01:05like in a different dimension so if  my body were to go over by that tree  
01:01:10you wouldn't know it was there you  couldn't see it but he could see you
01:01:16and that would be the same thing as your  spirit if that's what you want to call it  
01:01:20if so if you believe in god in heaven and all  that that's what would go to heaven that spirit  
01:01:26but so anyway uh i did this experiment  with this friend of mine we got in bed  
01:01:32we look at each other then we both popped out  of our bodies so here we are lying in bed and  
01:01:36here we are out of the out of the bed so me  and the me popped out said oh look where in  
01:01:42bed she said yeah yeah and i popped back in and  the me in bed just does look we're over there  
01:01:47so the me in bed is seeing us over there on the  other side and then me over on the other side  
01:01:52seeing me in this side you're fully aware of your  body so you're doubled you have two of me now yeah  
01:01:59somebody walking into the room  would only see the two in the bed  
01:02:04but once you learn how to do it you can see any  other person that's near you but it's kind of like  
01:02:12if you're not if you're not used to squirrels  and chipmunks you don't know this one looking  
01:02:16at you off the branch but once you  do then you know how to find it right  
01:02:22and so uh one of the things i used to do is  travel all over the universe at first i pop out in  
01:02:31here in seattle and one time i came through  this roof and this guy was having a party  
01:02:35and he's got a beer in his hand and he  looks up and saw you're offline again  
01:02:40and we had chatted for a bit and then i  left so i could communicate with some people
01:02:46but uh i did another test one time where i had  a roommate she wanted to know more about it  
01:02:53so we got in bed i had to put her hand on my thigh  
01:02:58and i said okay i was going to take her out of her  body and she wanted to know what that was about  
01:03:03and i said uh if anything happens then you  want it to stop you squeeze my thigh and  
01:03:09it'll stop and so i started going out of my  body now there's two different ways to leave and  
01:03:15one is the casual way we're  just gonna get up and walk away  
01:03:19and then there's the other way where  you kind of shoot up like a rocket  
01:03:24and you're here's this rocket going into  space and you're right there on the cone  
01:03:29and so i did that and i thought wait  a minute what if i take her with me  
01:03:34and so i don't know how i i don't know if you  know a lot of uh astrology or those kind of things  
01:03:41um i don't witchcraft all any you know  
01:03:44well in a lot of the mystical stuff they talk  about your solar plexus right here in your belly  
01:03:51and it's center of everything well yeah it is in  a sense and they always show it like a sun shining
01:04:01well when i was flying up into space and i thought  what if i took her with me these octopus arms came  
01:04:07right on my belly and they went out like out like  a net and they went down and grabbed the couch  
01:04:13they grabbed the bed they grabbed the floor  they grabbed everything they just pulled me  
01:04:17back like an octopus would and uh i hit the bed  and the there was a water bed well there wasn't  
01:04:23a water bed that was red so anyway i hit the  bed and the bed went it was shaking like that
01:04:32and i opened my eyes and i said  do you feel anything she said aha  
01:04:37and i said what did it feel like  well it felt like i had my finger  
01:04:40in the light socket but it didn't hurt so  she the reason she felt that is because  
01:04:48to do some of this thing you have  to have a higher energy level  
01:04:53and when there's high energy difference  between you and whatever you're standing with  
01:04:56the energy sparks across like lightning it's  kind of you know not really but similarly  
01:05:04so anyway after all these years i've  realized how to see the other side better  
01:05:12and uh but at the 16-year change when  you became more alive was it from these  
01:05:19out-of-body experiences that you're having or what  was it that you well you know i was having the  
01:05:26body out-of-body experiences without drugs and and  you know i can have a out-of-body experience just  
01:05:32drinking beer it doesn't have to be anything  else but the thing about the mushrooms is  
01:05:40um it's all about awareness and  so you can't be aware of this  
01:05:48until you have a certain knowledge over  here you know you have to learn the basics  
01:05:52then you get over here you get enough knowledge  and you say oh now i know what this is  
01:05:56and so so there's levels of awareness and so  the astral body is the first level of awareness  
01:06:04and you can run around in the physical universe  and see anything you want but there's still  
01:06:08more so once you get past the physical body  now again these are levels of awareness so  
01:06:15they ask the out-of-body stuff it's not a physical  body it's actually a level of awareness but you  
01:06:20can only see it as a body because of our  way of thinking about things so anyway
01:06:30one day my astro was coming back and i  could tell that something was chasing it  
01:06:37and i heard it running and i saw it jump  out of the wall toward me and i caught  
01:06:41it in midair and tossed it back out and you  would say you know how can i do this and so  
01:06:48he looked around and he jumped back in i  grabbed him again and i tossed him out again  
01:06:54and i looked at him it looked like he was saying  like this is it that's why i let him come back  
01:06:58in and this is you the astral projecting version  of yourself i was keeping the actual version of  
01:07:05myself out yeah it's only over the last next  several days i thought well if he was coming  
01:07:11back who tossed him out because the astral  has a higher energy level than the physical  
01:07:18and so one day i pop out of my  astral and right next to me is  
01:07:23what i call the energy body so if you  take a light bulb and you turn it on  
01:07:30you'll see the little filament flickering  in there yeah that's what you look like  
01:07:34there's a big glow white around you and  you look like a little filament in there  
01:07:38i call that the energy body and so that's  what tossed the astral out so i ran around  
01:07:44on that for a while and then one day i came  back and was doing it again and i popped out  
01:07:50so there's me the astral the energy body  and this other thing over here and we all  
01:07:57recognize they all recognize me and i recognize  them but again these are all levels of awareness
01:08:05so the unusual thing is once you  reach that level of awareness  
01:08:08you can combine all three  of them into one awareness
01:08:14and
01:08:16i call that the center of being for everything  you are everything you will be everything you  
01:08:21can be is all in one spot so when you crunch  those bodies into one spot it makes this one spot  
01:08:30and the interesting thing there is  if you have a right-handed glove  
01:08:34you take it off and put it on your left hand it  won't work the thumb's wrong right but if you  
01:08:39turn it inside out it will fit right well at that  point you can do something similar psychically  
01:08:49and life is that way at that point you  can start looking this way where death is
01:08:57and by the time i death told me he wasn't  coming for me i already reached that point
01:09:04that's the only thing that changed is i  reached this point where i could go into death  
01:09:08like this way instead of that way
01:09:12so the whole thing is really  basically just like the universe  
01:09:15there's the big bang which really isn't a big bang  it's just another bang so the big bang happens and  
01:09:20it spreads out goes round comes back in the  bottom and goes back in and gets reprocessed  
01:09:25basically the same thing with your life  so as far as the mushrooms are concerned
01:09:33with having a science background you know i have  my own doubts about things that are happening  
01:09:38so the mushrooms helped me to get past some of  those doubts and actually explore differently  
01:09:44so that i could convince myself that what  was happening was actually happening because  
01:09:49obviously anybody listening to what i've just  said you know it's pretty unbelievable stuff right
01:09:57but uh for me it's never been important  that anybody know what i do or what  
01:10:04i've learned or anything that's my thing  brilliant i fight from all the crazy stuff  
01:10:10um i have a science degree for the university  i was in genetics for two and a half years  
01:10:19yeah yeah i think that's important to recognize  you have a serious background in all of this it's  
01:10:25rare that someone is in touch with both sides  yeah and actually uh the person i worked with  
01:10:34ended up winning the nobel prize in medicine  who's that hartwell he was a geneticist  
01:10:42then he took over uh the fred hutchinson  council research center in seattle  
01:10:46and that's when he won it but uh the work  that i did from it started out that process  
01:10:53they were learning about the cell function single  cell and this interesting part is that they were  
01:11:01using yeast and some of them would become  kind of oblong or get little tails on them  
01:11:08because they had a genetic defect and so the  professor worked with these yeast because they  
01:11:14produced a hormone that caused those changes  and by using those hormones the cultural changes  
01:11:22they were able to figure out how the internal  workings of the cell were because they had an  
01:11:28abnormal thing to compare against the normal and  so when i first saw the the three strains of p  
01:11:38of amazon you know my my brain was already set  on abnormal things working with that and so i  
01:11:45saw those uh aborts and i thought well that's the  interesting thing not this nice looking one over  
01:11:50here but this one's the one that's interesting  yeah and that's where that got started this is  
01:11:55a photo you talk yeah these are photos of my an  amazing photographer these are really beautiful  
01:12:00you know i can do some really bad photography  too so this is the mushroom strain earl  
01:12:07that we used to sell jewel stevens and i i used  to sell spores through this company microtech  
01:12:15and you'll see that way back here guess what  that is oh wow looks like a penis envy right but  
01:12:23uh the penis envy were being sold long long before  they were called peanut and here you're somewhere  
01:12:30you'll see that there there's a amazon kit so  the penis envy has been around a lot longer  
01:12:39than people realize well that's what i wanted to  know i mean there has been so much speculation  
01:12:45and it's become very confused i've probably  contributed to the confusion i wanted to  
01:12:52learn i tend to bring it on motion john okay  well he did contribute that's for sure well  
01:12:58it's that trump thing it's got to be about him  yeah if he's near anything about mushrooms he's  
01:13:03got to say something and the interesting  part is i've known him since about 1975
01:13:12and i used to give him mushroom kits like that
01:13:20so he could grow mushrooms to sell prince right  
01:13:24and guess what one of them was pes and he's  heard the pe story more than once for me  
01:13:30because everybody knew the pd story back then  because it's a funny story and so what he said  
01:13:36i don't know why he said it because he knew it  wasn't true because he already knew the story
01:13:41so anyway i would give him tips like this  all you do is throw them on the shelf  
01:13:46and more than 50 will fail and  only he could make them fail  
01:13:51it's like i started giving him double because  they wouldn't work for him because like  
01:13:56they didn't like him i guess i don't know but  they work for everybody else and so this is  
01:14:00the kit that homestead was selling all those  years that they made all their money on yeah
01:14:06and so oh wow oh wow see in  the old days there wasn't
01:14:16see i intuitively just picked some big stuff  up and so you need a humid environment uh you  
01:14:22need warm i happen to have aquarium fish  why not aquarium mushrooms so in the old  
01:14:28days there would be fish in the back of the  aquarium and mushrooms in the front as a joke  
01:14:34but you would do that yeah there's a fish tank  heater there and so i cut a plexi panel crossways  
01:14:42so it's two triangles and the back triangle  has the heater and the fish and the front  
01:14:46triangle has the mushrooms aha what kind of  fish would you put in there it doesn't matter  
01:14:51it was just a joke anyway you don't need  the fish so eventually i just quit then  
01:14:54just put a gallon jug in and the heater and the  gallon jug so now you got a micro environment  
01:14:59cheap get it anywhere this is again i know i keep  saying it but this is just an exquisite photo  
01:15:05and uh yeah i think my photos are just  kind of blah blah blah i don't know
01:15:11and so see there's the panel i used to  sell that the panel in the lid i see  
01:15:17just because you know and a lot of stuff is just  good will industry stuff oops and so this is what  
01:15:241994 1993 something like that or the your book  came out in 1995 aquarium gardening 76 i mean uh
01:15:36this was uh
01:15:40this was uh
01:15:45i would say about three let's see the  combound one yeah well you know um  
01:15:53i was living with my wife when i did this because  there were plants a huge plant sitting above them
01:16:02so i think it was like 78.
01:16:09i think he's from about 78  because i was still married  
01:16:1478 okay wow so this is not so long  after the publication of your first  
01:16:18book correct and yeah and uh we  didn't uh make a big deal of them and
01:16:27the real big deal came one day in uh about 87 1987  
01:16:40jewel stevens was a womanizer and he liked  dating young women and he was dating this uh  
01:16:51exotic dancer or stripper take your pick  you say exotic dancer to make it nicer  
01:16:56and uh i happened to go to a friend's house  and i picked up a ziploc bag full of pe's  
01:17:04and i was going to take them and take pictures  of them and uh not unlike these and uh  
01:17:12so i went downtown where joel stevens lived  and i went in and his girlfriend was there  
01:17:18but he wasn't he was somewhere downtown and  there were probably six seven strippers there
01:17:25and i'm carrying this bag and uh my friend  says or his girlfriend says we got in the bag  
01:17:32i said nothing and then yeah one other  girl says what are you got in the bag  
01:17:36said you don't want to know and bunch up  and say yeah we want to know and so i had  
01:17:42mushrooms in a gallon bag i put my hand in there  pulled the gallon bag up and showed it to them  
01:17:49and i said anyone got peanuts in me and they  all said in unison oh they look like donkey dogs  
01:17:57that's when the penis enemy started that's when we  started calling them penis envy and all the kids  
01:18:02after 1987. but they'd been around since 78 or  so wow and these were local uh seattle strippers  
01:18:13who yeah yeah do you happen to know what strip  club it was no no i wasn't into that yeah no uh
01:18:28you know i basically grew up a catholic  i haven't been a catholic since i was 20.  
01:18:33but uh you know i always grew up in a time when  you do the right thing and treat people right and  
01:18:38all that so i tried to be that way but uh you know  the the whole pe thing was big among my friends  
01:18:48they loved them uh in fact they recommended people  not eat them because they weren't you know people  
01:18:55were used to that the hurl which was pretty  mild and here we go with the big command and so  
01:19:01one friend in particular he had a lot of uh  biker friends they'd go out in the woods and  
01:19:06eat them and and sometimes they come back say oh  shouldn't they give me those they're too strong
01:19:12and so uh anyway it was just a big deal among us  and until those strippers said donkey donkeys like  
01:19:20that's what stirred us to start all nmps we knew  it'd go you know we thought it was a big joke  
01:19:27which it was i think it's a very historically  important story so if we could just go through  
01:19:31it once do you want the name of all the strippers  i mean i am curious do you know no i said i wasn't  
01:19:38interested yeah they tried to push one on me but  i wasn't interested yeah yeah okay so let me get  
01:19:44the trajectory of all this so it starts out with  a hairdresser friend right okay hairdresser friend  
01:19:51gets the spores i played him out for him  um we plant him in his hexagon aquarium  
01:20:01three strains come up and like i said one of the  strains was the head wouldn't stay up there was  
01:20:08a lot of aborts and remember i was talking about  working with yeast that was abnormal i'm so used  
01:20:14to thinking that when i saw the aborts i said  well i'm not going to learn anything from the  
01:20:19normal ones i'm going to learn something from the  abnormal one knowing that i would have to clone  
01:20:24a fairly decent one to get anything to come  out i took one of the ones that looked kind  
01:20:30of normal but had a bent head and that  was kind of like this shape and so that  
01:20:36happened over three or four five generations  until finally a normal looking one came up  
01:20:42again with a lot of aborts so  we cloned that normal one and
01:20:51there were always only like three  or four mushrooms and they got big  
01:20:54now terence mckenna talks about  finding big amazon mushrooms  
01:21:01i've seen some good-sized mushrooms  out in the woods that never like these  
01:21:04the reason these are huge is because  of the food we were feeding them  
01:21:10on the second third fourth fifth generation they  a decent looking one came up probably as big as my  
01:21:16finger and we cloned that one and then we took the  biggest in the blue after that since the beginning  
01:21:22ones all of them were blue because of the abort  thing but then the blue board started going away  
01:21:29but the mushrooms if you cut them  would immediately blew solid blue  
01:21:34and so we just keep cloning the biggest one and  then we found out that we couldn't do that because  
01:21:38the genetics was so bad but luckily we had taken  some sport prints and we had saved some dry caps  
01:21:46and so we brought them back from the dry caps  and so probably once every six months we had to  
01:21:53bring it back from those dry caps not the same  ones we would always save some dry caps and so
01:22:02they were always sold the prints were always sold  as amazons until 1977 78 when we gave him a name
01:22:12and if it hadn't been for those strippers  it probably would just be amazon still
01:22:19and of course you're aware of the reputation  that penis envy has it's considered the strongest  
01:22:24strain you often encounter people on forums like  the shroomery saying people compare different  
01:22:31strains and they'll say a cube is a cube any  cubensis is the same with the exception of penis  
01:22:36envy that is the only cubensis that's treated  almost as if it's a separate species i know we  
01:22:42treated it as a joke but we knew it was powerful  i mean i mean some the last time i ate some
01:22:53uh jupine assembly it was about uh 1978 and uh  
01:23:03i was out in the woods at a par at a lake and all  i saw was purple black everything was purple black  
01:23:11and the wind was blowing and  even the wind was purple black
01:23:15and they were pretty strong but
01:23:19it's never been my mushroom of choice i've always  eaten sinuses interesting and uh i'm not an abuser  
01:23:31of mushrooms it doesn't take much to get me out of  state of consciousness i mean i can drink a couple  
01:23:38of beers and get into an alternative consciousness  and i don't mean drunk i mean actually aware um
01:23:47so what i discovered is that kind of by  accident is there was an entity attached  
01:23:52to the sine essence that i've never seen  attached to the any kubuntu's mushroom
01:24:00and that entity used to talk to me and so  like when i'd go and come mushroom hunting  
01:24:04here i'd be heading that way and for no  reason i go that way and there they are
01:24:11or if i'm in the woods looking  for morels i'm heading that way  
01:24:15and for no reason i flip around  go that way and there they are  
01:24:18they've always kind of called to me so when i went  to thailand with mushroom john it really surprised  
01:24:24me that he wasn't finding any mushrooms i was  finding most of them for him he couldn't find the  
01:24:27mushrooms when you say call to do you mean that in  a literal sense like you can actually hear a voice
01:24:42you imagine your mother being  over by that tree over there  
01:24:46and you hear in your head oh you're here  son come over here and you look and your  
01:24:53mother's looking the other way but you know you  actually heard that that's how that's how it is  
01:25:00and a lot of times it isn't even  hearing it can be feeling um  
01:25:07because of my the way my brain works  i tend to see everything visually
01:25:14so when i'm in the woods i can  see the squirrel the rabbit  
01:25:17the hawk the plane the car the people  there's somebody following me and so i just
01:25:25made that stronger a good example is i had a farm  in eastern washington i planted some strawberries  
01:25:32and there was i hadn't built a house  yet i had a garage and a tractor but  
01:25:35i had strawberries planted and i went  up there one day and that was going  
01:25:39to water everything and i looked down and  there's two footprints by the strawberries  
01:25:44so i go into town and i saw my sister-in-law  and i said how are the strawberries and she  
01:25:52said how do you know with me i was eating  strawberries i said there were two ferments  
01:25:56why do you know they're my footprints well they  told me the fourth queens told me that was her
01:26:02now they didn't say hey that was your  sister-in-law everything's got an  
01:26:07electromagnetic footprint so when she stepped on  that dirt she left and electric magnetic footprint  
01:26:15and because of the things i do i can read that  electromagnetic footprint but i don't see it  
01:26:20as a footprint i see it in my head as her so  i see the footprint but i see her in my head  
01:26:28and cubensis doesn't call to you  that way no why do you think that is
01:26:34no particular reason i can tell uh i've  never seen an entity in cubensis but i  
01:26:39saw one inside an essence muslim john  says he has but i don't believe him  
01:26:45but a friend of mine who also does out of body  stuff came over to my house one day we ate some  
01:26:52mushrooms and so if i'm not hot when ate mushrooms  i'll get cold and stay cold so i was making a fire  
01:27:01so i could heat up before i got high and so  i lit some newspapers and i passed them in  
01:27:08front of her on the way to the fireplace and  they went out the wind came up and blew it out  
01:27:14so i lit it again and on the way to the fireplace  it blew out again but it was like a wind was like  
01:27:20fire and i looked at her and finally  i just went over to the fireplace put  
01:27:25the paper in and lit it and the reason  that happened is because she's like me
01:27:34she has an expanded energy field and i was  getting in the way of the fire so anyway
01:27:40after that we ate some uh sine essence and i  looked at the door and under the door there was  
01:27:47a golden light and this thing came out from under  the door like a swarm of bees and zoomed around  
01:27:54the house but the bees look more like a lozenge  shape you know like this kind of lozenge shape  
01:28:01and they look like gold that was on the verge  of melting but they flew around like bees  
01:28:07and so i was high on the mushrooms and they  hit me and when they hit me i got totally sober  
01:28:14they came out the other side and then i was  high again then they went over and went through  
01:28:18her half the same thing happened they did that  several times went under the door and went and  
01:28:22went out i opened the door and under the bushes  oh everything was gold and color under the bushes
01:28:31and
01:28:34i've always felt them ever since i  may even felt them before then but  
01:28:38that was definitely the ultimate thing and just to  go back a second you said that one reason the pe  
01:28:47was so spectacular was not just the genetic  manipulations that you did but also a specific  
01:28:54compost you were giving them is that something  that could be replicated what was the well i can  
01:28:58go downtown and get any time i mean the only  problem with that compost is you can only get  
01:29:02a dump truck load other than that it's freely  available it's readily available so what is it  
01:29:06it's just it's just the wash common or compost  but not everybody handles it the same way and  
01:29:12there's a lot of epa things now and uh one of  the problems with the compost now is the epa  
01:29:20they're composting it on site and so what they've  done is uh all the bad things that used to invade  
01:29:29the compost are not very vigorous so all these  molds that you can get there i have because  
01:29:37the way they've been composted they've been  composted stead enough to destroy the woody matter  
01:29:45but they've made them they composted so much  that it's getting all these organisms in  
01:29:51and so you got to throw away half the  compost pile after a couple days because  
01:29:55you got all these moles that you don't want  moles moles and a lot of other stuff it's it's
01:30:04by by helping keep nitrogen out of the water by  composting it on site they've encouraged all the  
01:30:13things to grow in the compost to grow 10 times  better and so now that mushroom has come you know  
01:30:20compensate and so we used to throw about half  the pile away but then we finally we got to a  
01:30:25point where we could just go there and get the top  of the pile and cook it right away and avoid that  
01:30:31but uh nobody had compost like us it was  the bomb right but you know you got it
01:30:40we take a two hour ride and a dump truck sometimes  we'd hand shovel it to get what we wanted  
01:30:46you know two hours back and then  you gotta pile it up and we have  
01:30:49to pass we used to super pasteurize  it and based on your background in  
01:30:54genetics what do you think is going  on with pe what do you think you did
01:31:00all we did was
01:31:06make an individual that could  overcome its genetic defects  
01:31:13we got an individual that refused to  grow normally and got it to grow normally
01:31:20but that was all that was all manipulation so  we've got a sick individual with bad genes and  
01:31:27we clone it and make another sick individual with  bad genes but just like twins things are never  
01:31:35the same so if you grow ten individuals one of  them is going to be stronger than the other nine  
01:31:40so we kept for picking the strongest individual to  reproduce the strain and the secondary condition  
01:31:47was more bluing so if a mushroom was huge but  didn't blue we wouldn't use it we'd rather use  
01:31:53a small one that blew it a lot so it's always  having to do with the bluing so all the strains  
01:31:59that were ever sold were always manipulated the  same way and this is naturally occurring blueing  
01:32:05or would you do a check of some kind by bruising  it intentionally how do you quantify the bluing  
01:32:10you don't have to do any checking you just  touch them and just stuff with stone blue  
01:32:14you'd cut it off the compost and the whole  thing will be blue see how this blue is you  
01:32:20would cut the mushroom and it looked like somebody  soaked it in blue ink and like immediately yeah  
01:32:26the peas that are out there are nothing like  the original peas and only the strains that we  
01:32:31had can reproduce that how are they different  well they've other people have manipulated and
01:32:42to my knowledge we're the only ones that  manipulated them the way we did we took a  
01:32:46week individual made a strong individual  out of it as strong as we could make it
01:32:51while keeping all the traits we wanted  
01:32:54so sure the horse didn't look like a horse it  looked more like a donkey but it had what we  
01:32:58wanted was the glueing effect and the size but you  know the size is no big deal it's all in the food  
01:33:07what about albino penis envy are you  familiar with that yeah i've seen them  
01:33:10what do you think of that uh well you know  it's like anything else if you want to uh get  
01:33:18a white mushroom then you just keep culturing the  color you want until you get the color you want
01:33:26we used to include this with uh
01:33:29the homestead mushroom kit notice  how all the mushrooms are big  
01:33:34yeah same food look at my hand here holding that  little clump why here a friend it's amazing work  
01:33:44and uh it's it's you know any any  simpleton could do all this stuff
01:33:52luckily i've had enough uh
01:33:56i was on pe what year is this oh that was that  was sold with a homestead mushroom kits until
01:34:07june of 2017. oh wow so they're  done with that yeah dave the owner
01:34:15had a mixmaker put in so he wanted to  do other things before he died right  
01:34:22so anyway the reason i'm getting rid  of the photos i got thousands of them  
01:34:26i think i would love to archive this material for  you i can scan it and send it back to you well you  
01:34:32know what i tend to destroy everything i create  but um i threw probably 500 pounds of pictures  
01:34:39out already oh it's terrible please don't i mean  give them to me i'll preserve them i find all this  
01:34:44historically really you know what though is uh  i've got about 30 hard drives full of stuff that  
01:34:50people have never seen uh you know how they talk  about the penis envy looking like a penis yeah  
01:34:58i've got some that actually  have the cleft you know  
01:35:01your research left really yeah can you find those  photos uh well i went through uh about 10 of my  
01:35:08uh hard drives these are pes a  friend of mine was growing them
01:35:17he was the favorite grower  
01:35:20he also knew his science not they really need  any science for these but if you're interested  
01:35:26in any of these pieces you're welcome to them  of course but they're not the best pictures
01:35:32and these i don't know if i'd want  them in there they're a little too much  
01:35:38but you know singly thingy like that  doesn't look bad but like this it's a little  
01:35:44you don't like the composition of the  photo no i don't like the contents  
01:35:48oh it's too much like it looks like a illegal  yeah yeah the guy's not around here anymore  
01:35:54and the other guy jules davis is dead so  there's not much to do with the two main people  
01:35:59well yeah you're welcome to like all these  it's beautiful thank you it's very kind of view  
01:36:03rebel stevens he wasn't the science guy he went  he wanted the book to be a hippie book i wanted  
01:36:09to be a science book and we never got to the place  where i wanted it he's using his mycelium to feed  
01:36:17the patch it's a waste of time he should have  just planted the mycelium so he planted some  
01:36:24roses and he said can i plant some of these so  we planted some of those and that's what came up
01:36:29the very next year we planted them in the  spring the rain that same fall they were up
01:36:36and
01:36:39and i think you can even see the roses and  some of them but you can have those two wow
01:36:46and these are actually they're in that book  you could probably have those their sisters  
01:36:52now just all these mushrooms that are  in here they're off in that one patch  
01:36:56and to my knowledge there were like  three or four hundred pounds of  
01:36:59fresh sinuses picked out of that in about  six weeks it's amazing yeah and actually uh  
01:37:07i got a bit of a i've got some videos  of more than you ever gonna see here  
01:37:12i got 3d video high definition uhf video oh  i'd love to help you archive some of it i mean  
01:37:18i really you know you must be following  the pharmaceutical commercialization of  
01:37:24psilocybin right now in fact homestead just uh  sold out for one of those guys it's become a  
01:37:30huge industry there's multiple publicly traded  stocks on the market right now that are still  
01:37:34aside in stocks and i feel that people like you  who are a huge part of this history it sounds  
01:37:42like you don't necessarily want credit for your  work but i think that whether you want the credit  
01:37:46or not people should be able to recognize your  historical contributions to all of this yeah i
01:38:01most of my other understand is totally  different this whole era of being afraid  
01:38:04of it being afraid of it being illegal  it's all going to be different very soon  
01:38:08and then a lot of the people that were afraid  to talk about it or didn't want the attention  
01:38:13i mean that's history that's lost it will go  directly from maria sabina and our gordon watson  
01:38:18to 21st century well funny you should say that you  know i've given away a lot of things in my life  
01:38:25including all my money about three times  things like that aren't important to me  
01:38:30they never have been when windows microsoft  windows first came out the very first windows uh  
01:38:36i got this group together and we were we started  writing a software where if you were a band  
01:38:45we could put you on our software and me in new  york could get into your file and listen to your  
01:38:51band play and book you before google before any  of those guys yeah but the guy we had writing  
01:38:58the software wanted to get paid now so he missed  the whole thing because he wanted to get paid now  
01:39:05yeah we you know we wrote half the software  too we made it we checked it it worked  
01:39:08that orange cleaner you see everywhere you clean  your grease off your hands yeah i discovered that  
01:39:13when i was in college i was always working on my  car and i was always eating oranges and i realized  
01:39:17that that would take degrees off my hands so i  told everybody in the world about that discovered  
01:39:22a long time ago yeah you know all my life people  have always kind of tried to jump on my boat  
01:39:29and the next thing you know they're trying  to change what i'm doing because they think  
01:39:33this thing is better yeah and so i just will stay  away from people and do my thing and do it my way  
01:39:41the only reason i'm actually  talking to you about this is
01:39:46the story about how all this happened  
01:39:50a bloody letter and terrorist mckenna just  baloney from the very beginning yeah and
01:40:01if i did beat terence i think he would have been  
01:40:06busy talking to everybody else who was trying  to get to him um i did visit uh pollock
01:40:14and i had a friend who had a fish store and he  had a friend who bought his uh he bought the  
01:40:22saltwater mix for his fish and so  i stopped to saw pilot his place  
01:40:29and then i stayed down there but that's the  last time i saw pollock he never told me  
01:40:33anything he just showed me what he was doing  he was really happy because he could go to  
01:40:37the zoo and get lions dung and all this  other stuff to grow his mushrooms on and  
01:40:42we didn't talk about anything substantial and  he never talked about any mushrooms other than  
01:40:46normal stuff never talked about sclerosia camote  oh yeah you know temperances yeah but yeah he  
01:40:54talked about that but never about any specific  uh juventus mushroom doing anything yeah and um
01:41:04this this story about a that  i don't know where they came  
01:41:06from about the bloody letter  with the spore print in it uh
01:41:13he didn't even have my address
01:41:18fact uh the reason i've been the way i am is  about a week after the book came out i answered  
01:41:24the door and this guy's come from spokane  which is on the other side of washington  
01:41:28and he says i want to know everything you know  about mushrooms and i closed that door on them  
01:41:34and then the only way you could get hold of me  was to call the operator have the operator call  
01:41:38me and ask me if i wanted to talk to you  yeah i had an unlisted unpublished number  
01:41:44because i didn't want that anymore  and i don't i don't know these guys  
01:41:48right do you remember what year it  was you visited pawlik in san antonio
01:41:57you know what that's way on the way back because  you all had books coming out around the same time  
01:42:01it was right everybody's writing a book at the  same time in fact i have most of them yeah at  
01:42:05home yeah if you ever want to see them i'd love  to yeah yeah if we everybody showed up there was a  
01:42:09conference here and everybody showed up with their  book they were pushing our book was not yet yeah  
01:42:16and uh actually the reason that  our book came out was uh homestead  
01:42:20he was uh selling counter  culture books and he wanted to  
01:42:26um sell emotional book and my neighbor wrote  one some information he stole from everybody  
01:42:37and that was the first one what  book was that the one with the  
01:42:41the red mascara on the cover the little book not  much bigger than this a friend of mine wrote the  
01:42:49how to grow pot indoors under lights yeah i  met him and he happened to know my neighbor  
01:42:57and so i met him he had he later  wrote a book before we got ours out  
01:43:02but he went down to the university  and and took all the books from one  
01:43:07of the professors there like everybody  else we all borrowed the same pictures
01:43:13this is one of my favorite tv pictures
01:43:18wow
01:43:21those are small
01:43:25those those bags are here
01:43:29the newest ones yeah the bags are actually you  know when you blow up a bag with too much air  
01:43:34yeah they look like that because there's  so many mushrooms that actually crack the  
01:43:37top of the bag open oh wow but you notice the  spores have gone white they got to be sporeless
01:43:47you know i would tell you that  the mushrooms talk to me yeah  
01:43:51i've drove to uh the coast of washington oregon  got on the other side of the columbia river  
01:43:57and i went i went to look for azure essence and  so i could see the bridge to cross over to oregon  
01:44:05and then there was a little mini rest  stop where there was a rock with a  
01:44:08sign on it you know some with i think it was  uh lewis and clark had been there or something  
01:44:13and i was reading that and i looked down  at my feet and there was one of these  
01:44:16as yours took it home and those walk in front  wow see i never even made it to where i was going  
01:44:24to find the answers it was already  just waiting for me there already
01:44:30do you have any memories of pollock or  those other early players in this i mean  
01:44:34he sounded like he was quite a character
01:44:38the only thing i remember was the fact that  he would like going to the zoo to try all  
01:44:42these different kind of poops but again you  know my deal has always been i want it to be  
01:44:47my deal i don't want to to be a rehash of your  deal right and so it's like all the out-of-body  
01:44:56stuff i didn't want to learn from somebody  else i wanted to learn it myself yeah and  
01:45:04as a scientist a lab guy you know i'm one of  the best there is i do say so myself and so um
01:45:16and in my life i've always done everything  intuitively nobody has to tell me how to do  
01:45:21something you know i needed the garage i built  the garage i needed a pasteurizer i'll build  
01:45:26the pasteurizer you know i just went out the  parts yeah i have the ability to see just about  
01:45:31anything i want why do you think mushrooms  produce psilocybin what is your take on that
01:45:39i think the mushrooms have sales having for some  probably some uh way of protecting themselves
01:45:46if uh if you eat something that's yucky  
01:45:52you're not gonna eat it again so maybe animals  were eating the mushrooms and the one way to  
01:45:57save themselves is to have a chemical that  they don't like yeah like other things
01:46:03like the uh the butterfly it's got the color  yellow and black that means it's poisonous
01:46:10well you could you know you could look at it from  a different point of view and say that you know  
01:46:17nature evolved this way to help humans you know  you could do that i think nature is just being  
01:46:22nature you know it's protecting myself it's some  kind of this must there's some kind of use for  
01:46:27the mushroom for that chemical yeah i agree we  just like came stumbling along and ate some and  
01:46:32decided we liked it right i got nature all the  time and it's like i can go down the highway  
01:46:39and by reading the signs on the side of the  road i can tell you where the mushrooms are
01:46:44but you know you have to know  what to look for in those signs  
01:46:48yeah i can look on the mountain  over there and i can tell you  
01:46:51where the chanterelles are and where  the bullets are just from the highway
01:46:57i spend a lot of time in the woods i  mean i go out in the middle of nowhere  
01:47:00by myself where i can't be disturbed  i just sit there and absorb everything
01:47:08and so
01:47:11to me it's i've never thought  about why they have psilocybin  
01:47:15it's more like why not right and i agree but  it sounds like you also have a non-materialist  
01:47:22connection with them that makes sense from a  materialist perspective that it's just a thing  
01:47:26that evolved and it serves the mushroom in one  way or another but it sounds like you also have  
01:47:32a connection with them that exists beyond that do  you think that's something that's more in you than  
01:47:35in the mushroom how do you explain that feeling  of a supernatural connection to the mushrooms
01:47:43well you know you have to look at it  from my original perspective my friend  
01:47:49find some mushrooms down the road here  i'll come and pick them and watch i look  
01:47:55what's there and the first thing i noticed  that there's wood chips ground into the dirt  
01:48:03so i get some wood chips and i get some  spores and throw them together and guess what  
01:48:06i've got the mushrooms um i've always intuitively  been able to just see things i call it sea feeling  
01:48:16i can feel with my eyes and i  can see with my feelings kind of  
01:48:21so one of my problems that  i have is you say something  
01:48:26and i we say and i say it back to you and you  say no i didn't say that and that's because  
01:48:31sometimes i don't know if i'm listening to  your voice or if i'm listening to your head  
01:48:36i can hear you thinking not  necessarily you right now but uh  
01:48:44it's like this friend of  mine we were in jakarta and
01:48:53she was wearing a short skirt and she laid  down the bed next to me and i heard her say  
01:49:01i wonder what i wonder what he'll do well she  didn't speak it she thought it and i heard her  
01:49:08uh my ex-wife she said something one time i  i repeated it so i didn't say that well yes  
01:49:14you did well it's because i can't always tell  if i'm hearing your head or hearing your voice  
01:49:20and it's always been that way for me so i'm always  already dealing in nebulous places you know what's  
01:49:26so hard about hearing mushrooms compared to  hearing you right yeah but you know it's like um
01:49:35to me mushrooms are like little kids in the forest  
01:49:38they'll be found if they want to be found  and they won't if they don't want to
01:49:44but you know it's like being a hunter  if you're going to hunt elk you go  
01:49:48to where the elk are and so
01:49:54for me um knowledge is basically the only thing  i want one time i spent probably an hour an hour  
01:50:03and a half staring at a raindrop watching it fall  off a leaf not because i wanted to see the water  
01:50:10drop but because i wanted to know the physics  of that water drawing that one drop of water  
01:50:17and so i have the patients to  take all day to do that if i want  
01:50:20but my head isn't seeing a little drop of water  dropping my head is seeing all the physics  
01:50:26and i've always been that way when i was young  
01:50:30we didn't have any money i made all my toys  made my own sled i made my own slingshot my  
01:50:36board arrow nobody showed me nobody taught me  i knew what they looked like so i just made one  
01:50:41the pasteurizer you knew what i wanted i bought  the metal from going i made it no plan nothing
01:50:49so a way of looking at how i see  things is i built a pasteurizer
01:50:58and i built it behind my house i had a  friend of mine the guy who grew those bins of
01:51:04peas i had him over and and he built it for  me and what happened was i was in the kitchen  
01:51:11of my house and i was looking out the window  and i see this compost bin up in the backyard  
01:51:18so i called my friend and i told him i wanted  this much wood i wanted to cut this size and  
01:51:24put together this way and he did and uh he  came came in and said well you know this  
01:51:30isn't going to work and i'd do this with the  wood and i said okay so it only worked like 90  
01:51:36as well as it should have but it worked about  200 better than i thought it was going to work
01:51:42so anyway it was in my backyard and it was there  for about a week so one day i take a ladder and i  
01:51:47climb the ladder and i'm taking photos of it and i  realize that the photos i'm taking are what i saw  
01:51:53through the kitchen window weeks ago that i got  the plan to build it from oh wow so which came  
01:52:01first it's like i mean when i looked out the  window with nothing and then i looked out the  
01:52:06window again and there it was so i built one like  like what i saw and there it was in the present  
01:52:12i've always been that way and so i can't say  that it's the mushrooms but the mushrooms  
01:52:18put me in that state of mind where things are  more believable right you know how if you're  
01:52:23a real scientist you always have that doubt  in your head like where's the proof you know  
01:52:26there is a proof yeah and i've always tried to  supply the proof right to myself more than if  
01:52:32anything else i don't care what you think about  what i'm doing is i want to prove it to myself  
01:52:37right but you know my grandfather has a little  bit of it and my mom used to say i was a brujo  
01:52:47yeah and uh when my sis one of my sisters first  got married every time i walked into the room her  
01:52:52family they'd all start saying they all quiet  down and they wouldn't turn their backs on me  
01:52:57they always had to see what i was doing and you  think that was partially because of surviving the  
01:53:01almost fatal gunshot wound or i've always had it  but it just made it easier what about stamets do  
01:53:07you have much interaction with salmons uh that bit  in the old and when he was like 19. he apparently  
01:53:17mentions my name on occasion these are some uh pes  that got used to them and so my friend threw him  
01:53:24in the backyard and uh this is what came up oh  wow that's amazing they almost look like a bowl  
01:53:30lead or something very yeah they're huge they  think they were um let me skip to the bottom  
01:53:37why do you think it is that this form is never  found in nature this mutation do you think it's  
01:53:42it's has something about it that's well adapted i  i would say that it probably did show up in nature
01:53:53i thought um was going to be  a poster at the bottom but
01:53:59um
01:54:02i went to
01:54:06to uh thailand cambodia with mushroom  john then a few years later i went with uh  
01:54:13see how it has this right here yeah well some  of them actually have a clef right there in  
01:54:18like a little hole just like a penis does  and then that class kind of comes down they  
01:54:23don't i didn't find any on the last time i went  through the photos penis envy with a penis whole  
01:54:32wow so i'm not sure what else  you need you want to know
01:54:37was the penis shape purely accidental was  that something that you were ever thinking  
01:54:42like i can selectively breathe this to  make it look even more like a penis if i  
01:54:46put my mind to it no wasn't  about the penis at all yeah um
01:54:57when we were first martial hunting
01:55:01we were three of us would go out and one of  them was the taster this guy was a drug freak  
01:55:09he would taste anything and so if we  thought it was a psilocybin he'd taste it
01:55:15luckily he wasn't weren't hearty  mushrooms like we got to prophyla and  
01:55:21liberty calves don't see uh well before  students guys there were peliculosa
01:55:30and so he was always saying well you know you  could taste it but you can taste still simon  
01:55:36and so you could taste it but it didn't get them  very high sometimes you get like a little buzz  
01:55:41and so it was always about a stronger and  stronger muscle and then we found the cyan  
01:55:45essence and they were the strongest ones  around and so even though it was never  
01:55:52in the front of my mind i knew they were getting  stronger just because what i was doing with them  
01:55:59but uh since i never really ate  them it didn't really matter to me  
01:56:04and then they started getting like penises but
01:56:09it wasn't that the penis shape was chosen for  it was always the biggest one and the bluest one  
01:56:16it was never about looking like a penis and not  looking like a penis it just so happened that it  
01:56:20evolved that way we didn't stop it from evolving  that way but we didn't force it to evolve that way  
01:56:27so there are some mushrooms that actually  look like somebody cut your penis off  
01:56:31they could put it on and look the same
01:56:36we didn't actually reproduce those they  just happened to show up in the match and uh  
01:56:46it was always comedy for us i mean i don't  have much of a funny bone but you know for me  
01:56:53it's funny i think it's funny to a lot  of people i mean it's even been a problem  
01:56:59historically when they find some mesoamerican  
01:57:03stone mushroom there's always a question  is it a mushroom or is it a peanut butter  
01:57:07yeah well the the only people that had a problem  with the penis with the girls when they ate them
01:57:14that they always would laugh about the  idea of their chewing on their penis
01:57:21and they'd laugh about it but other than that  it was nobody ever asked for penis mushrooms  
01:57:26they asked for amazons yeah and then later when we  called them pes then they would ask for pes yeah  
01:57:36but since i was in that it wasn't in that  business you know i only saw the effects of people  
01:57:41when they encountered them  
01:57:44are you proud i mean it's a pretty big  contribution to the world of psychedelic mushrooms
01:57:52you know
01:57:55to me just comedy i mean i laugh at the stories  
01:57:59every time i hear the word legend i could have  fallen off my seat everybody laughs so hard
01:58:09and that's where i am is i've always been  here is like nothing is important to me it's
01:58:15you know i given money to old ladies to get  off the street i've given all my money away  
01:58:20to help other people nonetheless important  to me and i think probably is because  
01:58:27because of my dying is like i died and then  i was back and the whole world was different  
01:58:34and it took me a long time to  start seeing the world the same
01:58:40for a long time it was hard  to make sense of the world  
01:58:44i had to start used when i was i  was 10 years old and i started using  
01:58:48logic to try to explain the world  because it didn't make sense and so
01:58:55so the whole thing with the mushrooms  the whole thing with everything i do has  
01:58:57always been trying to find my place in the  universe had nothing to do with people had  
01:59:02nothing to do with creating anything it just  has to do with where i am in space and time
01:59:10do you think it worked do you think  you've learned something from them  
01:59:13well one thing is i'm not afraid of dying i  know what it's all about i've done it already  
01:59:18i've gone in the back door too i've met death  he doesn't care me either um never has um  
01:59:30i think what the mushrooms did is  uh they accentuated that part that
01:59:36the normal the normal system of the universe is  you live when you die and you can't you don't have  
01:59:44to be afraid of it it's not scary and some people  think it's scary but it's not scary dying is easy  
01:59:51you know i always look at it that way dying  is easy living is hard dying is easy and um
01:59:59for me it's uh i've never i've never thought in  the ways that people ask me if i think that way  
02:00:06it just never comes to my mind but you  know it's like a young girl would come  
02:00:10by here and start stepping in front of me  and i tell her to put her clothes back on  
02:00:13because to me that's logical  jumping her bones isn't logical  
02:00:18you know i was raised in a certain way  i've got a certain way that i live my life
02:00:23um and the only reason i'm even doing this is uh
02:00:31i guess it got to the point of ridiculousness  that it needed to be straightened out  
02:00:38yeah i mean i don't really care if it  helps xyz guy to figure it out or makes  
02:00:43a guy over there happy is you know the truth  is the truth and that's all there is right  
02:00:48well i appreciate it i really do well uh not a  lot of people have this information and and uh
02:00:57my problem is uh when i get information i don't  get a little bit i get a lot as you can see i mean  
02:01:02this is nothing i mean that computer is full of  stuff like fact i had a computer crash and it took  
02:01:08thousands of photos i don't care like i can  reproduce anything yeah and a lot of the great  
02:01:16stuff was on that computer i've even got the  hard drive but the car it's the hard drive just  
02:01:22but i've got some hidden gems  and hard drive right now that  
02:01:27people would love to see i just doing other stuff  well i would i understand where you're coming from  
02:01:34but i really do think this is an important  history and you know it's it's uh it  
02:01:40impacts a lot of people other people will make up  stories other people will fill in the blanks with  
02:01:45whatever they want and as this becomes a bigger  part of our culture i think people are going to  
02:01:51not only want to know but need to know  about the people that made all this possible  
02:01:56well you know if my never my name never  came up it would never bother me um
02:02:06like richard g that's not me right but you know um
02:02:13you know it's a strange feeling it's like
02:02:20if you're sitting there and you almost  get run over by a car it's like wow  
02:02:24you know that was close and a lot of  emotions kind of well up after i got  
02:02:30shot when i looked in the mirror i didn't  see me with somebody else in the mirror
02:02:36and there's always been somebody else in  the mirror and so and i know why because i  
02:02:42have a fractured personality from being beat  up by the first grade teacher all the time
02:02:49but um
02:02:54for me it was always about my journey
02:03:00where i come from where i'm going what i am
02:03:06and there was about 20 years of my life where  everybody around me was scared to death to death  
02:03:10of me they were all my friends but they wouldn't  turn their back on me because i knew too much
02:03:19and so from i'm i'm basically uh
02:03:23with the word
02:03:26like those guys used to go in the caves and hang  out and do all their thinking away from people  
02:03:30a monk yeah kind of like a monk  yeah but not a monkey it's called  
02:03:34anything else where they retreat from society  and just do their thinking without any harm yeah  
02:03:42uh what i found is like jewel stevens  he was always trying to tell me  
02:03:47a better way to do things well he didn't know  the science so how could he show me a better  
02:03:51way but i put up with it for a long time did  he stay connected to mushrooms until the end
02:03:59um
02:04:02yes or no his interest in the mushrooms  was how they could help them monetarily
02:04:11that was never my interest even  though i made my money off them um so
02:04:20he wanted to know all about growing  them because he could sell them
02:04:25i wanted to grow them because i could
02:04:28um so he never got into the spirituality of it  
02:04:34he never got into anything other than  they were a money-making opportunity  
02:04:39um but you know it was like almost 10 years before  he died that i quit talking to him because he came  
02:04:48to my house one day and he said you know you  should do this you should do this and i said no  
02:04:52you should do it because you're the one that wants  to be that way yeah i'm gonna do what i want to do  
02:04:56yeah and he didn't like that because he's like uh  trump it has to be about him and so he didn't like  
02:05:03it that it wasn't about him and anything to do  with the mushrooms was always about me because  
02:05:08all his friends knew that i was the one that knew  it the science he came up with some of the money  
02:05:13and that was his deal in the book yeah but he  didn't know the science he didn't use the right  
02:05:17term analogy he didn't know how to play things out  he didn't know anything about that right and so um
02:05:26so no he didn't stay in it to the end because  he left town and there was no business for him  
02:05:31with it yeah uh i've always had friends that  were interested so i've always kept the peas  
02:05:39going for them but i was always doing something  else right was he not growing them at the end or  
02:05:46was he he never knew how to grow them oh wow if i  didn't give him the stuff he couldn't grow them ha  
02:05:52that's funny there was the hippie and the  scientist yeah he was the hippie yeah that's  
02:05:57why the book is a hippie book what did he do what  was his job he ran a dance studio or something  
02:06:02no he cut hair oh he cut hair oh is he the  original hairstylist yeah i see but you see  
02:06:08you walk in and you get haircut from him he's  gonna make 600 bucks on you and this is almost  
02:06:1250 years ago so he was the hair stylist that first  gave you the amazonian he's the hairstylist that  
02:06:19had the friend who got his hands on an amazon ic  his friend got a hold of a pound of dry amazons  
02:06:27and my friend joel stevens he got sold on  one of those and that's what i saw i see so  
02:06:35so terence mckenna didn't pick keys in the  amazon right picked a strain or strains and  
02:06:42nobody had the pe before we made it right  
02:06:46and a lot of people didn't know it was the  p until we started calling it the pe right
02:06:53and in the beginning it was just  another mushroom it was no big deal  
02:06:57and the fact that it got stronger  was what made it the big deal  
02:07:02yeah i know some of the people who sold them  around town there's a bigger margin on the piece  
02:07:09yeah and there were a lot of people who  turned them down because they were too strong  
02:07:12right and back in those days you know more was  better stronger was better everybody was overdoing  
02:07:19everything talking about overdoing you don't find  mushrooms around here anymore they're overpicked  
02:07:24i hear both camps some people say when you pick  them it causes spore dispersal and that will help  
02:07:30propagate them across whatever territory that  you carry them but then other people think that  
02:07:35they can be over harvested like uh anything else  well the first batch i found down there i came by  
02:07:41one day and i was picking and this other guy came  by and started picking next to me and i said wait  
02:07:44a minute i left all those little pins there so  they'd grow up i said yeah and i talked about it  
02:07:49picking them then i went away and i flipped around  came back and he was picking them yeah and so  
02:07:56the interesting part is i used to  come in here and i would follow the uh
02:08:03the wind currents so i pick some mushrooms  here or take pictures here i'd follow them  
02:08:09in currents and they're over there you go around  the corner they're over there and they would go  
02:08:13with the currents and you just kind of follow  the current and you could find the patches  
02:08:18and then people started coming here and over  picking and then it uh it'd be a yearly thing  
02:08:23this year they'd be overpicked next year they  wouldn't come up then they come up again they'd  
02:08:27be overpicked and so but the second problem is  they're putting down too many chips so they like  
02:08:31it like this all dried up several years old they  don't get to do that anymore they put fresh fresh  
02:08:37acid chips in the springtime and they continue  all through the summer and the next year they  
02:08:42do it again so the mushrooms never get out  of that acidy soil until they don't come up  
02:08:48and so last year there was only there were  no patches that came up last year in here  
02:08:53and the year before that there were  two patches only that came up in here  
02:08:57and one of those patches died after that  and this year i know of one patch maybe  
02:09:02two that might be here and that's it but  there used to be hundreds of patches right  
02:09:08just like those pictures you saw  it used to be like that in here too  
02:09:12sad do you think there's anything people  can do to bring them back quit picking them  
02:09:17grow them and throw out spores and you know  i understand if i pick this mushroom yeah  
02:09:21i'm shaking and i'm putting out spores but  maybe i'm putting out a hundred thousand scores  
02:09:26by doing that but if you did them on the ground  they put out billions so eventually you know  
02:09:31works against you right and mushroom job is one  of the worst is depict everything to the ground  
02:09:39in fact there's a joke about  mushroom down around here  
02:09:44people would follow him and find out where  his patches were and then they could then  
02:09:50later they go ahead of him and pick them  so when he got there they were already gone
02:09:54but he was so dumb about it  that he'd be over there and he  
02:09:58you know everybody could see that he's picking  mushrooms they all knew where his patches was and  
02:10:02he would all he called him all his patches he'd  get there and he'd throw a tantrum somebody  
02:10:05picked my patch well it's not his patch it's just  our patch but everything in town was his patch
02:10:12yo we've always laughed at him
02:10:16and the only reason i know him uh is  that phone call like somebody talked  
02:10:20to me and he just happened to be in the  room and i couldn't get rid of him again
02:10:25it took me what 15 years to get rid of him again  and that's why he doesn't know about the piece  
02:10:31he wasn't around me when the pd's were being  changed and all that he came at the end of it  
02:10:37and you know that don't you think that's an  interesting story about the hookers it is yeah  
02:10:42everybody wanted to hear that story do you think  mushroom john wouldn't have heard it especially  
02:10:46since it was getting kid smoothie i don't know he  had actually bragged about lying to me about it  
02:10:53on the shrimery at one point so he for whatever  reason wanted to spread misinformation because  
02:11:01we had a deal i told him i'd give him some of  these kits if he got me different scorpions so  
02:11:08he'd go to thailand and i did a sprint or two from  him and i gave him some bags well one day uh he  
02:11:14talked to somebody they made a deal and this was  for some little island on the middle of pacific
02:11:24and he got he got one prince he was  really faint worse than the pe ones  
02:11:30and he'd already made a deal for  money with the guy he got him from  
02:11:33and so the deal i had with him is when i have  the inclination and the time and the stuff i'll  
02:11:39make you some kids but don't count on it when  you want it you know it's gonna be on my time  
02:11:44and so he brought me this print and i uh put  it on plate nothing happened i put it on plates  
02:11:53again there are three spots where they're sports  they weren't going to do anything plated it again
02:12:02there was monokaryotic on two different plates  threw them on top of each other nothing happened  
02:12:10so meanwhile he's fuming because he hasn't  got prints to sell he's already made this  
02:12:15deal for 1400 and prince he's going to get off  these kits i mean well the original print the  
02:12:19scores are no good you can't get what he wants  and so um i never get sick but for some reason  
02:12:26i must have been reading in the car or  something i get carsick i can't read in the car  
02:12:30and uh it didn't feel well so i was going  to do something for him and then ah i'm  
02:12:34not going to bother then i went on vacation  that already planned it was gone for a month
02:12:40so i get back and he calls me and he says uh
02:12:45you know you're going to be in a lot of  trouble sorry why did i just talk to my  
02:12:49my daughter and son and i told him to make  up stories about you about having a lot of  
02:12:55drugs and selling a lot of drugs so you can  get arrested and go to prison forever and uh
02:13:04i offered to throw him out the window right there  and then and i told him i don't care you know i'll  
02:13:09take the firing squad i'll take death penalty  i'll throw you out the window he said no i'm  
02:13:15well okay told him if he ever  crossed my path he's in jeopardy  
02:13:19i don't want him anywhere near  me i've seen him twice since then  
02:13:23one over here at the corner he didn't recognize  mika he's all the fat and i never changed  
02:13:29and a lot of people don't recognize me because  i don't change it pretty much stay the same um  
02:13:36and one time i was at a mushroom show i was  bending over taking a photo and i saw him  
02:13:40outside corner of my eye and i said hey john and  he left and disappeared because he knew better  
02:13:47and if he comes crossing about here he's in  jeopardy because he's not allowed to cross my  
02:13:51path yeah i'm serious it's a dead-end road for  him yeah and uh you know i'm within my rights  
02:14:01somebody want to lie like that especially  after benefiting from me for all those years  
02:14:06yeah it's unfortunate that he's got those  characteristics i mean it's one thing getting  
02:14:11wacky emails from him or having him insult you  on the shroomer it's another thing having him  
02:14:17threaten to ruin your life and get you arrested  so i can completely understand why you well you  
02:14:22know he called me a lunatic or something  similar and you you kind of just left it  
02:14:28off in your article where he said he owed me 1400  bucks and you said something like oh yeah and um
02:14:38who was i could get
02:14:43um when i was doing all this out of body stuff  
02:14:47remember i told you i did some sorcery sorcery  yeah i really didn't know how to do that and
02:14:56there's an unfortunate  circumstance in my life where  
02:14:59uh i don't completely run  my my life completely 100
02:15:06so you don't want to threaten me  because some part of me will not like it  
02:15:12i even order it away and it'll go over  there and stick back around and come up  
02:15:16behind me it sounds all crazy but um you  don't want to fool with me you know there  
02:15:22are other powers higher than bigger than  me there take care of me you know and uh  
02:15:28i'd rather threaten that guy physically than  have part of me come and show up in the middle  
02:15:32of night and throw him out the window yeah sounds  like he's suffering on his own i don't think he  
02:15:36needs any kind of uh yeah it's like spiritual but  you know one of the reasons i keep to myself is
02:15:44uh i have brain damage and uh you  can't do repetitive things to me  
02:15:50so if you say i'm going to punch  you i'm going to punch you by the  
02:15:52time you say it the first time i'm  punching you because it's repetitive
02:15:58and he repetitively did too many things yeah you  know there's no going back and i'm not i'm not  
02:16:04a physical person but uh i never back down from  anybody i don't care how big they are who they are
02:16:13oh i'm too little to back down from people  you know they'll pick on me right and so uh  
02:16:20that's one of the reasons i spent a lot of my  time alone anyway is i knew too much for a long  
02:16:25time and so do i want it to get out on you that  i know too much is it you fault that i know too  
02:16:31much is it my fault that i know too much you know  there's a lot of questions you gotta ask and so um
02:16:41the reason he stays away from me he's scared of  me yeah and i like that and what do you see the  
02:16:46future of all this having been involved in this  world for 45 50 years however long it's been
02:16:55it's been since 1973 so the fall of 1973. well my  friend who uh started me on this has been dead for  
02:17:04a long time just about everybody that i dealt with  with this thing i've been dead for a long time um
02:17:15uh homestead was the one person i've  known a long time and have still known and
02:17:23he just sold his mailing list to some company  who uh went public a couple months ago  
02:17:30and i guess they're going to resurrect the  mushroom kit but they didn't mention me so  
02:17:34i think they're resurrecting the tip before  mine which wasn't that good it was made by  
02:17:40another person i know i forget his name  is at the moment and uh if you're trying  
02:17:45to get a hold of me i wouldn't know because i  don't answer my phone to anybody i don't know  
02:17:50and i really don't care but if they're trying to  reproduce homestead kid they got my instructions  
02:17:56so anybody with a lot of knowledge could  reproduce it do you still sell cats
02:18:03i haven't done that a long time
02:18:06um
02:18:10i was helping homestead make kids  for a long time but that ended in  
02:18:16uh spring of 17 when he closed down and a lot  of people wanted to keep buying the kids he  
02:18:22just didn't want to do it anymore yeah plus  uh he had a this alternative book business  
02:18:28and the book business not his just that all book  business went down you know with the internet  
02:18:36you don't need a book you just look it  up right and so his book business just  
02:18:41basically disappeared so the only thing  keeping him alive was the mushroom kits  
02:18:45so that was like the last five years of his  business with staying alive on the mushroom kits  
02:18:50right but you know it's like anything else  expenses get up everybody's got big expenses  
02:18:57yeah and then the compost got hard to  get you couldn't just go get a pickup  
02:19:01load anymore you have to get a dump truck load  and you have to make an appointment and and uh
02:19:09i didn't need to do it anymore do you  have any opinion about the pharmaceutical  
02:19:13introduction of psilocybin as a synthetic  product no um stephen jewell jewel stevens  
02:19:23his friends used to call him the jewel
02:19:28they made a big deal out of him he made him a lot  of money but anyway uh he was complaining that  
02:19:34he needed to smoke pot every day whenever  he wanted to and the law wouldn't let him  
02:19:39and i said well just wait 50 years and all the  people in power will die and then you can smoke  
02:19:44all the fight you want so i look at the phil simon  the same way all the people in power have died and  
02:19:51the people with the new ideas are  here and that's why it's changing  
02:19:56everything changes like that you just have to  let the generation ahead of you die off and  
02:20:00your ideas come to the forefront so here  we are you know i've left the business  
02:20:07but the ideas are still there somebody's starting  something new my girlfriend doesn't inclined she  
02:20:13knows about all this but she let him find and  she's not even inclined for me to be here but um
02:20:25for me you know there's the right thing and  the wrong thing and there's no reason to  
02:20:29say the wrong thing just despite somebody  and the only reason you're getting this  
02:20:33information is because i'm the only one  who's got it sure there's a reason for that
02:20:39and so you know i don't care about mushroom jazz  i don't care if he lives or dies i don't care  
02:20:43if he comes around the corner you know the  mushrooms have never told me that i need to  
02:20:49make a lot of money or i need to be nicer  anything you know they're just mushrooms  
02:20:54but uh you know i went through a period where  where i could hear the moon talking to me i could  
02:21:01hear the trees talking to me i still do i can  hear everything talking to me everything always  
02:21:04talks to me and so my head's in a different  space because i have different input um
02:21:14i had some cops come to my house i had a really  bad landlord one time he was always hanging around  
02:21:21you're not supposed to be hanging around your  tennis places there's a lot against that but he  
02:21:24was always hanging around and then i decided to  paint the house he didn't give me enough paint to  
02:21:29paint it but i bought my own i just decided  to paint the house so it was all closed up  
02:21:33and he called the cops because he thought  i was growing mushrooms which i wasn't  
02:21:38well technically i was so anyway i get up in the  morning and i've had this mushroom kit out and  
02:21:43i threw it out on a chair outside because it's  too wet because it had been caught in the rain  
02:21:47and it was oyster oyster mushrooms no no it was uh
02:22:00mushrooms so anyway they were too wet because  i'd left them in the sun too long i was taking  
02:22:04pictures of them and i threw my chair so these  two detectives come up come by and this guy was  
02:22:10painting my house and they asked him where i was  and when i was gonna be back and then one of them  
02:22:15looked at the chair and saw the shiitakes and they  said okay let's go and uh so i get home about half  
02:22:22an hour later and my friend says hey the cops are  here and they want to talk to you and i said uh  
02:22:29and he says uh you know they're probably gonna  come back to another nun yeah i think they're  
02:22:32gonna come back no they saw those mushrooms  on the table and they're satisfied they were
02:22:39so why did the mushrooms end up out there  they didn't have to be out there that day  
02:22:44i just put them out unknowingly but that's the  way my life works is they were conveniently in  
02:22:50a place where the cops could see them and they  could see what i was growing indoors and that was  
02:22:54a hook it's horrible that he would do  that to you though but yeah it's well no  
02:22:59but what i'm saying though is is something  else in me always senses what's coming up  
02:23:06and so whatever sense that was happening threw  those mushrooms out there for the cops to see
02:23:12and so um
02:23:17that you know it's that's my  association with the mushrooms is  
02:23:23everything talks to me they're just another  thing that comes to me right like you know  
02:23:27there's nothing talking to me now but like if  somebody was sneaking up behind me i know it  
02:23:32i mean i was in high school one time and i'm  walking out the door and have books on both hands  
02:23:36and i hear this voice behind me say my name and as  i turn around above my head because there's fists  
02:23:41already flying how did i know they were  flying i just knew right you know as soon  
02:23:48as they said my name i knew they were flying  right and so you know the mushrooms just help  
02:23:54it's kind of like the cherry on top yeah it's  not the main thing it's just another thing yeah  
02:24:03and you know really um joel stevens was trying  to cure somebody with mushrooms uh for cancer  
02:24:10they died but you know he had known of about  science to know about dosage or all this stuff  
02:24:16it might have been too late um there's there's  bound to be some benefit from all this if nothing  
02:24:21else it's people just get high oh i think there is  you know they're in clinical trials right now as a  
02:24:26treatment for depression and the results are very  promising and it's going to be an fda approved  
02:24:31treatment probably within the next five years yeah  i've heard of that and uh my comment has always  
02:24:37been about psilocybins they never lie to you they  always tell you the truth fully one haired or not  
02:24:47and so if i ate some mushrooms right now and  i didn't like you they'd reiterate that yeah  
02:24:54or they would say well you can i show up  tomorrow you know and you would yeah so but uh
02:25:04one of my old stories is if i if there's  a rock over there and i trip on it  
02:25:09the next time next time what i do is i tell that  rock never tripped me again and i'll never trip  
02:25:13on that rock again and people say well you know  that's just you no it isn't just me i believe  
02:25:19that everything else has its own volition even a  rock a contributor not to you it's up to him it  
02:25:25i believe everything's alive  and to me everything is alive
02:25:31so like that's why i like this park there's  a lot of life here it just happens to be  
02:25:36there's mushrooms here too are you interested  in other psychedelics other than psilocybin um
02:25:46i tried to pay off the button once it  was so bad that i spit it out i just  
02:25:51didn't like it um one time
02:25:56joe stephenson offended his had some
02:26:01opium yeah it was like chewing chewing gum tacky
02:26:08and they put a film on my tongue i didn't  like it yeah it makes it terrible and
02:26:17that's about the extent of other chemicals  
02:26:20i've never been a chemical person i've  been given cocaine i just give it away  
02:26:25right i've been given lsd i just give that away  yeah i mean i've got enough in my brain without  
02:26:31i don't need psychedelics i mean you've  heard me talk about all this stuff you  
02:26:34know you think you'd think somebody breathing  heights i get alex talking like that i don't  
02:26:38have to be on psychedelics right but you know  my whole family knows me they know i how i am
02:26:47it's like uh i was dating this woman one  time and i whenever i date somebody new i  
02:26:52always tell them i always talk to them like  i talk to you just now because i want them  
02:26:56to understand what they're getting to do so  anyway this woman invited me out over to dinner  
02:27:04and she fed me so much that too many carbs made  me sleepy and i'd had a long day of work so i  
02:27:10went to the bathroom and it was so sleepy i just  went straight to the bedroom head went headfirst  
02:27:14into the bed and so i wake up the next morning and  i look around and she wakes up and i'm wearing all  
02:27:22my clothes she's wearing all her clothes and  i said anything happened last night i said no  
02:27:27you sure said no and i said you sure said well i  woke up in the middle of night and you were blue  
02:27:34and floating six inches above the bed but you said  that might happen so i just went back to sleep
02:27:41so you know i have so many  experiences like that that
02:27:46it's hard not to believe what's happening  yeah sometimes like when i go to thailand  
02:27:54i don't know it's been about three trips ago um  
02:27:59i can't sleep with my head north especially  from a place like thailand anyway i had  
02:28:04my head north and i woke up in the middle  of night because i was vibrating too much  
02:28:09and it's like you know when a engine is going like  you can feel the vibration i do that and so i was  
02:28:16vibrating and i started slapping my face to try to  get it to stop and so then i went in the bathroom  
02:28:25and i looked in the mirror and my face  was gold in color all of me was gold color  
02:28:30i pushed i splashed some water in  my face and slapped my face and  
02:28:34it wouldn't go away and i stayed gold  and then i tried to go to sleep and i  
02:28:39couldn't so i flipped the bed around and put  my head to the south and finally it went away
02:28:48and sometimes when i'll be sleeping i'll wake up  and and the whole room will light up like light  
02:28:54bulb the lights coming out of me so you know  with with stuff like that happening you know  
02:29:02having a salesmanship is nothing to me right  you know it's i'm in a constant state of that  
02:29:10now this girlfriend of mine she doesn't like any  of that and so i'm sleeping with my head east or  
02:29:16west so it doesn't happen but when she's gone i  start vibrating again because seeing that around
02:29:24and uh the interesting part is if i'm next to you  and i'm vibrating they'll go right into you start  
02:29:28vibrating in you i mean it's like a contact thing  it's like you'll start you start going uh wow  
02:29:37and i've done a lot of experiments with  stuff you know i've proven that to myself
02:29:44that's the way i am i always do experimental
02:29:46people time i was sitting in the living  room and we had some visitors from
02:29:57the liechtenstein liechtenstein and they were  talking about sailing and they were in the  
02:30:03kitchen i'm living with the dining room and i was  in the living room and so i looked at this girl
02:30:11and i sent one of those things out  of my belly and poked her inside  
02:30:16and she was finished talking she came  over to me and she said was that you
02:30:21and i've got lots of people that recognize  what i do without knowing what i'm doing  
02:30:25so it doesn't count if i tell you  what's going to happen right and so uh  
02:30:32i'm actually thinking of getting  back to that not so much mushrooms
02:30:37but as long as i'm with this woman it's like  hard to do because she's not interested in  
02:30:42seeing that part of me what is she interested  in well she she knew homestead dave before i did  
02:30:52through other mutual people or maybe maybe  not before i did but she interacted with him  
02:30:59interacted with him more because her husband knew  him and homestead you know dave from homestead  
02:31:05was where all the mushroom kids came  from um so she's okay with that but
02:31:14she's always thought that what i talk  about is always a trip but it's not a  
02:31:17trip i'm talking about real life sort of stuff  so when i say i can touch you from here i'm not  
02:31:22joking it's like there's no the only problem with  proving it to you is it could be dramatic on you  
02:31:30i mean it's like uh one of my neighbors  said do you like to see a ghost well  
02:31:35she doesn't really want to see ghosts the  idea of seeing a ghost is you know maybe  
02:31:41like interesting but it's not really because  once you once you see one you got to deal with it  
02:31:46and if you've never dealt with a ghost  you don't know what's going to happen  
02:31:50and i've dealt with ghosts a lot  of times and you got to be really  
02:31:53careful you know you don't want to get  into something you don't understand
02:32:01give you a for instance uh one  of my roommates i was working
02:32:07happens to be about the time before  i first got into the mushrooms  
02:32:11i mean he was taking a bath and he  was cold so he put a heater in there  
02:32:17so he called me blown out the fuse so i tell  him it's on the porch so he goes and calls  
02:32:22me back and said no i can't find it so i said  well there's another fuse block in the basement  
02:32:26so he goes down the basement and then i get  a call from him and i said did you find it  
02:32:30no uh something happened said what happened well  i'll tell you when to get home so i get home and  
02:32:36he's he's white but he's whiter than white  he's freaked out he's drinking a beer and uh  
02:32:44i said what happened he says well i was looking  at diffusers downstairs and i kept feeling like  
02:32:49somebody was looking at me so i turned around and  there was a white man his head floating behind him  
02:32:56had long hair and a beard and a mustache and it  was just his head floating behind him so he ran  
02:33:01up the stairs and he called me and so i uh he said  that and said okay well i'll take care of it and  
02:33:08he says what do you mean you'll take care of it i  said yeah i'll take care of it so what do you mean  
02:33:12i'll take care of it he said well he said did you  know them so yeah but it wasn't bothering anybody  
02:33:18and so uh i happen to have this tooth of a  sperm whale it's ivory that i've had carved  
02:33:26actually and um i put it on steps and i raised  some life into it and i walked away laughing  
02:33:36because what i told it to do was when the ghost  came by us to prick it in the foot and the ghost  
02:33:41was going to go hopping away go wake up the  next day the ghost was gone never came back hmm
02:33:50but you know i don't usually  do anything to ghosts because  
02:33:52unless they're bugging me it's they don't care
02:33:57now again you know what this has nothing to do  with mushrooms or does it you know it's like  
02:34:01it was like the coming together two  different forces will be in that place and  
02:34:08and uh you know the ability to see what's  going to come of what i'm doing is like  
02:34:15nobody would have cultured the bad mushrooms  that mean they would culture the good ones  
02:34:20what do you think you were expecting when  you started culturing the mutant mushrooms  
02:34:27a bigger blue or mushroom yeah you know i wasn't  i don't eat i never ate mushrooms that often  
02:34:32so it didn't matter to me if they were strong  enough why do you think the mushroom turns blue  
02:34:38oxidation of the chemicals that's whenever  you cut it what are you doing adding oxygen  
02:34:42air yeah when you squeeze it your  your uh some of these some of the  
02:34:50mushrooms would come out with  like a fuzzy coat like a squirrel  
02:34:54where you could kind of squeeze it in and that  would your finger would have your fingerprints  
02:34:58on it but they'd be blue which is dangerous  because if you touch one your fingers go with it  
02:35:05i mean you can see the rings on your fingers and  everything really yeah they'd be like this but  
02:35:09they'd have like a core on the outside of like  fuzzy hair but it wasn't it was just fluffy and  
02:35:15you put your fingers on and you pull them back  and you got blue fingerprints that you could read
02:35:22and i always have to be careful about that because  when i take pictures i can see the fingerprints  
02:35:26on the mushrooms without taking pictures wow  that's interesting huh so i would have to uh
02:35:34wear plastic gloves or something  stop that right otherwise my  
02:35:38favorite prints would have been over  everything do you have any remaining  
02:35:42goals in the realm of mushrooms do you  think there's any work left to be done  
02:35:46a species that you want to cultivate i mean  there's a lot of fascinating species out there
02:35:54well you know
02:35:58um i found in this place i have found sign essence  
02:36:04uh not far from here some friends found some  as your residents near their house i've seen um
02:36:14liberty caps here
02:36:17and uh there's another one it's got a little  girl's name i forget what it's called and really  
02:36:25uh when we get away from here they used to be um  stunty eyes they look outside like a sinuses but  
02:36:32more more fragile and out of all the mushrooms  i've encountered that the only ones i really  
02:36:39find interesting is the fine essence and  the antioxidants and the peas yeah and uh  
02:36:46i've never had any nation to grow any of the other  ones and i've always known where they are but  
02:36:54me i don't have any aspirations to do anything  with them in fact to me it's more like i'm closing  
02:37:00a chapter on on them used to do art when i got  done with the art of under all i used to write  
02:37:08a lot of the stuff that i wrote about  uh alternative costumes it's all burnt  
02:37:16i don't recommend anybody uh burying me in  the wrong place but other than that you know  
02:37:25just to me there's no future in mushrooms for  me other than i go pick them all the time bury  
02:37:30you in the wrong places and you you might  be fed on by a mushroom no i i always joke  
02:37:36i was joking to my son and i said you know cremate  me and throw me on the stairs of a temple and  
02:37:45in cambodia and the wind will  blow me away that's fine with me
02:37:53i have no i have no uh connection to here  
02:37:58you know i haven't had a connection  to here for most of my life
02:38:04and you know the dying part um  
02:38:09i was treated so badly that uh i actually  wanted to die before i died so i wanted to  
02:38:16die let me come back to somebody else and guess  what i died and came back to somebody else  
02:38:22the meal is here isn't for me that died  that was a different meaning and so  
02:38:30a lot of what people want to need i think they  want to need is not important to me there's very  
02:38:36little in life that's important to me and  that's why i can do the things that i do is  
02:38:43i don't care if something fails or works  usually i usually know what's going to happen  
02:38:48in fact life can get boring sometimes i advertise  for a roommate one time and this woman called  
02:38:56me and says didn't be a girl sure why not  and i saw her at a distance and i thought  
02:39:01i would have sex with this girl and it  wasn't my deal that i was gonna have sex with  
02:39:06her deal but it happened i didn't know  who she was i'd never seen her before  
02:39:11but i usually know when i married my  wife i knew i was going to get divorced
02:39:19when my son was born i know he was going  to be born i knew he was going to be a boy  
02:39:24and who is going to be like me there's haven't  been very many surprises in my life is your  
02:39:29son interested in mushrooms no he's straight as i  used to be yeah you know when i was in high school  
02:39:35that was the time example of how to be and how to  react how to deal with people our whole family was  
02:39:43the example in the whole town we did no wrong  we did everything right we didn't get in trouble  
02:39:50we stood up for the right things
02:39:54but nothing has changed yeah but you know  time marches on um if i hadn't been here  
02:40:03it would have been somebody else i don't  know about that it's a pretty extraordinary  
02:40:08and unique discovery the pe you really  think someone else would have found that
02:40:15there were a lot of minds out there thinking the  same thing paula could have done it anybody could  
02:40:20have done it they didn't but and i guess you  know that's the whole thing about this is uh
02:40:28it's like a shipwreck
02:40:31uh you think you're in america but  you're actually on one of the islands  
02:40:34wrecked on one of the islands and  you're not quite there yet and so
02:40:39i don't know who started the story but you know  the bloody letter i thought that was hilarious  
02:40:45like i could see paula crawling to the mailbox and  dying as he puts his bloody letter in his mailbox
02:40:54and for mushroom john to even come  to say anything like so ridiculous uh
02:41:03so i guess it was it was good for me it was a  good comedy what do you think of pollock's death
02:41:11uh i don't think much about it actually uh i  heard about it real soon after it happened uh
02:41:20i didn't know him that well i  knew very few things about him uh  
02:41:26i wasn't surprised but it wasn't expecting it  either yeah you know life and dustings are not  
02:41:33a big deal to me i mean nobody lives and dies  uh just the fact that he was in mushrooms  
02:41:40but when i read a part i read  about the part where he uh  
02:41:43was making a lot of money and handling a  lot of money i could see why it happened
02:41:50but uh i've never really thought about it other  than that you know too bad yeah i am when i was  
02:41:58growing up one of the things the girls used to  say all the time about me was you have no feelings
02:42:06well it's not that i don't have any feelings i  just look at things differently um you know i've  
02:42:13seen a lot of people die i've seen a lot of people  get beat up i've seen a lot of stuff and so um  
02:42:21living and dying is not an issue for me it's like  leaving a name behind is not an issue for me you  
02:42:30know i used to wear a suit i made a lot of money  and gave it all away it wasn't an issue for me
02:42:37the mushrooms i don't know they have  a life of their own to me it's like  
02:42:42the mushrooms came to me and they showed me  something and they went away and i let them
02:42:50do you have any spores left from the penis  envy lineage i know you said that it died  
02:42:54out are there any left i've got two or three  caps and that's it and i know somebody who has  
02:43:02probably still got some of the spore prints  but they're five years old seven years old  
02:43:08uh i'm actually gonna cook up some agar  because i'm gonna do some uh morels
02:43:17and so if i do that in the near  future i might try them again but um  
02:43:24the last time we tried them it didn't work try  keep them alive yeah and then i have uh the  
02:43:31mycelium of peas and i don't know anybody who does  that stuff anymore i do you want to grow some yeah  
02:43:41well the peas that we got aren't  anything like the peas that are out  
02:43:44there they're not white they're not  the right color sounds better to me
02:43:55there is uh
02:43:59oh i'm throwing out about a thousand prints today  
02:44:03don't throw them out i'll take them i can  use them for microscopy at the very least  
02:44:07oh they're i've been throwing up i've been  throwing them out by the hundreds or so
02:44:16i mean uh some of the ones we got at the end i  forget where we got them oh a friend of mine moved  
02:44:22out of town and was able to get them first but the  elk grew huge and the prints were like that big  
02:44:30well i'll see what i've got but uh i  think most of those have gone already  
02:44:34i know there's about a thousand in the  box though but i don't know what they are  
02:44:37i'm gonna stop the report is there any any  final thing that you think should be said or  
02:44:41oh no not really i'm not a final thing  this podcast is brought to you by machikari  
02:44:48matcha.com this is andrew wiles matcha tea company  andrew weil is one of the pioneers of the study  
02:44:55of psychedelic drugs and he now owns a matcha  tea company that sells imported matcha that's  
02:45:02tested for heavy metals if you go to matcha.com  you can see the analysis of all of their teas  
02:45:08i drink it almost every day it is delicious matcha  if you go to matcha.com and use the discount code  
02:45:14hamilton you get 10 off any tease  that you buy thank you matcha.com
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FAQs about This YouTube Video

1. What is the origin of the Penis Envy Mushroom?

The Penis Envy Mushroom is a unique strain of Psilocybe cubensis, originally popularized by the mycologist Terrence McKenna. It is known for its distinct appearance and potency.

2. What are the effects of the Penis Envy Mushroom?

The effects of the Penis Envy Mushroom are reported to be intense and powerful, often leading to profound experiences of self-discovery, vivid visuals, and introspective thoughts.

3. What are the personal experiences of individuals with the Penis Envy Mushroom?

Many individuals have reported transformative and life-changing experiences with the Penis Envy Mushroom, sharing stories of personal growth, spiritual insights, and emotional healing.

4. How does the Penis Envy Mushroom compare to other psychedelic mushrooms?

The Penis Envy Mushroom is often said to be more potent and visually intense compared to other psychedelic mushrooms, leading to a unique and immersive journey for the user.

5. Are there any safety considerations to keep in mind when consuming the Penis Envy Mushroom?

As with any psychedelic substance, it is important to approach the Penis Envy Mushroom with caution, respect, and in a safe environment. Using harm reduction practices and having a trusted trip sitter are highly recommended.

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